Well, I have to say that in my opinion, you and Jody Hamilton were two of the best heel interviews around.
I appreciate it. He would probably tell you the same thing – as a matter of fact, he did in your interview with him – you have to express
your identity – even though you wear a mask. And when you wear a mask, there’s a lot of mystery there.
Believe it or not, about six months ago, I was talking to a guy and he stopped me and said, “aren’t you...?” (Laughs) I get that all the time
when people hear me talk, and they tell me they know who I am, and it’s because they paid attention to what I had to say.
Boris was good, too, and he had a philosophy that holds true today – you’ve got Johnny Carson, Jay Leno, David Letterman, and all these
talk shows – if you go out and express something and hold their interest, they’re going to listen and not change the channel. That’s one
of the things he told me, and the other was that you need to pay attention to the other people in the territory. If they’re screaming, you talk,
and if they’re talking, you scream.
A lot of guys nowadays try to emulate Flair, but there’s only one Flair. If you’re different than everyone else and you make that your niche,
people are going to listen. Everybody now is all the same – they’re all yelling at you. The one thing the babyface can’t do is make a
promise he can’t keep. If he says he’s going to break your neck, he’d better break your neck. He should say, “I’m going to try my
darndest to break your neck.” Then later he can say, “I tried, but it was unsuccessful.” A heel can say anything because he can come
back and deny it when it doesn’t happen. (Laughs)
One guy who was very good about that was Wahoo McDaniel – he used to get into shouting matches with Ole and George Scott. He’d
say, “I’m not going to say that because if I say it and I don’t do it, it demeans me,” and that’s absolutely true.
You lose your credibility...
Yeah...
You talk about talking and screaming in interviews – and this is probably why you were the first heel I ever cheered – you know, I
was a little impressionable ten year old who chose to go over to the darkside with the Masked Superstar (Laughs) – I think it meant
more when you did come out and raised your voice because you really knew the Superstar was mad.
Well, it means something special. I learned that from one of the guys who was an old school football coach. He was like Vince
Lombardi and he would come out and scream and yell. Well if you’re a freshman or sophomore, you’re intimidated, but by the time you’
re a junior or senior, you’re immune to it.
When I got into coaching I had a guy over me who was a calm guy, so when he said something it stuck. When they were upset, they
might throw a curse word in, and it showed he was upset. There’s no difference in the wrestling business. How many times do you
listen to Flair anymore? He’s always saying the same thing in the same way. He’s a good friend of mine, but he’s done the same
interview so many times that the same people aren’t listening to him anymore. If they’d get somebody up there who’d talk calmly and
deliberately, people might sit back and say, “we’d better watch this guy because he’s serious.”
The Superstar gimmick really got hot quickly and stayed hot from 1976 through 1978 in Crockett’s area, and you had program’s
going on with the Mighty Igor, Blackjack Mulligan and Paul Jones. You also started using the Cobra hold and the stipulation that if
anyone broke it you’d paid them $1,000.
That really started out of the gate. George wanted us to have a certain type of hold, so in my very first matches I was already using it. I
had seen that in Japan when Baba was using it and learned how to apply it. When I saw Baba doing it, he had already become so frail
that it didn’t look strong anymore. But I thought it was a pretty good move, so when we started training with Malenko, I decided to start
using it and it became a good signature move.
I know in Georgia there was at least one booking where the hold was broken in Georgia, but did they ever work it to be broken in the
Carolinas?
No, not even Andre.
So George Scott wouldn’t allow that to happen?
Right. We made it to the ropes – there were ways to get out of it, but we always did it so that it was me releasing it. Once it was on, it was
on, and people knew it was the end of the match.
And Malenko’s lighting up a cigar...
(Laughs) He hated smoking, too. He would dread that the whole night. He was a health fanatic. He would do his squats and pushups
everyday. He didn’t drink, but he’d have a soda every once in awhile. He literally would dread that cigar bit everyday.
Was it his idea?
Well, it was a combination of ideas, and I don’t think he realized when he agreed to make it part of the character that it would bother him
as much as it did. It turned out to be good.
And, of course, it led to the burning of Igor, and many more turns around the world over the years...
Fourteen years in Japan alone, over one cigar.
When you first came to Georgia Championship Wrestling in the fall of 1978, you worked a few brief programs with guys like Dick
Slater and Rick Martel. There was already a buildup though toward a feud between you and Mr. Wrestling #2. You would come out
on TV and stand in the shadows and watch his matches, and the same kind of thing around the loop for several weeks. That clearly
made the angle that much hotter when it finally came about. Tell me about working with Mr. Wrestling #2, and what kind of
relationship did you have with Johnny Walker?
When I first got here, if you remember, every other guy in the ring had a mask on. Part of the success in Charlotte was that there was only
one masked man. Even when Rocky Johnson came in up there under a hood, George didn’t really do anything with him because he
already had a masked man. To him it was like having two Ric Flair’s or two Ricky Steamboat’s. Ole had basically the same idea when
he asked me to come down – and originally it was only supposed to be for six weeks, but wound up being many years (Laughs) – but
that was his concept. Ole wanted to get rid of some masked men...
Well, they had brought in so many to work the angle around the bounty put up by King Kong Mosca to try and keep the Georgia
Heavyweight Title, and it just sort of got out of hand. As a matter of fact, Len Denton was working on the undercard here, but was
pulling double duty as the Grappler, which was born from that angle around Mosca.
Len’s a good guy – a good worker. Anyway, all I had heard about Walker was bad. Everybody would tell me he didn’t always want to go
along with the programs, and that he was stubborn, but I never found him that way. Our styles really meshed right away.
As you said before, he’s the top babyface, and here I come in as the heel, and I’m threatening him. I eliminated all the masked men and
eventually it was down to me and Two, and I had been responsible for taking all these guys masks off when I beat them. So it was only
logical it was going to get down to me and him.
He had good charisma, he did a good interview, he was cautious, when he was mad he spoke up, and he never promised anything he
couldn’t produce, so people believed in him. And when he cocked that knee, you felt it. That knee was stiff. (Laughs) I think he probably
hit me with that once and I wasn’t looking for it when he did it, and it was probably the hardest I’d ever been hit in my life.
You had to be careful because if you were in a prone position on all fours, he might give you that knee out of the blue. He got me one
time – me and Heenan were down there in Columbus – and for some reason I spun around on my hands and knees and there came
that knee. I couldn’t move. Bobby leans in and says, “what the hell are you doing?”, and I told him I couldn’t move. I learned that way.
It wasn’t his fault because he thought I was feeding him. We went so many times and had so many good matches. He was the kind of
guy that if he felt secure and comfortable with you, he would try stuff. We never sat down and talked careers, but I imagine someone
somewhere had tried to shaft him so he became cautious.
Well, he did work for Nick Gulas quite a lot. (Laughs)
I hope he would say the same thing about me, but I felt we had a good relationship with him. I enjoyed seeing him in Columbus a few
years back, and he and I made quite a bit of money together over the years. There’s still people who once they find out who I am they ask
me about those matches, so we must have made a good impression.
Definitely.
There were a lot of guys that didn’t want to work with him for whatever reason, and there were probably just as many guys that didn’t want
to work with me. I was always in good shape, and when I first went up to New York under the mask, there were a lot of lazy guys up
there. I remember John Studd said, “Bill’s here. A lot of you babyfaces are going to have to move or throw up.” (Laughs)
That was the M. O. that Boris had given me. You know in Japan you had to move, move, move, and if these guys weren’t in shape, they
were going to end up selling for you because their tongues were hanging out. Stan Hansen learned the same thing and so did Bruiser
Brody. I always prided myself on being in good shape. Two was always in great shape. Wahoo was another one. Some guys weren’t,
and more often than not, you’d see some of these guys heaving on the floor.
Also during your first run for Georgia Championship Wrestling, you added a stipulation to the effect that if anyone could force you to
submit or could beat you by pinfall, you would give them $1,000. Did that finish ever get booked here?
I don’t think so.
Ole and Gene were booking here at the time, right?
Yeah. One thing you have to realize is that bookers would add stipulations that I never even knew about. (Laughs) When I was in New
York, Pat Patterson said if I won the WWF Title I would take my mask off. Hell, I never said anything like that. (Laughs) I wouldn’t have
done it. I believe that was even raised here to $5,000 at one point.
You won the Georgia Heavyweight Title just before the end of 1978 as the feud with Mr. Wrestling #2 was escalating.
Right.
You also teamed with Stan Hansen quite a bit, and I’ve noticed you would be booked in a lot of on and off again angles here during
that time with all the other top faces, but the one with Mr. Wrestling #2 never went away.
No, that was one that lasted a long time, and was quite lucrative.
A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that Gene and Ole weren’t good bookers, but...
Well, I beg to differ with them.
I agree. I think they booked some really good stuff here.
Ole’s a good friend of mine, and I think there’s a lot of personal jealousy around the fact that he did do a good job. He was brash and
would say what he wanted to say. He was honest and he didn’t pull any punches.
A lot of guys took offense to that because they only wanted to hear how good they were. Sometimes guys would ask me if I watched their
matches, and I would say, “let me qualify this before I do. Do you want me to watch your match and tell you what you did and how you
could improve, or do you just want me to tell you how good you are?” (Laughs) As it turns out, a lot of the guys didn’t want constructive
criticism – they just wanted to hear how good they looked.
Ole was a hard worker, and he never asked anyone to do anything he wasn’t going to do. He gave 150 per cent, and he expected
everyone else to do the same. I think there was a lot of jealousy about the fact he was in charge, but it was a free country, and if they didn’
t like the way he ran things they could go work somewhere else. I think they had great ideas. I bumped into him not too long ago and we
reminisced a little bit.
Yeah, he seems to be doing really well these days.
Yeah, he looks good, too.
You know about his book coming out, right?
No, did he write a book?
Well, he and Scott Teal worked on it for about two years or more.
Did Ole do any of the writing? (Laughs)
I’m not sure who did the talking and writing...
Well, if it’s full of curse words we’ll know who wrote it. (Laughs)
I’ve been fortunate enough to sit in a room and listen to him tell some stories and he’s great at it.
Yeah, he’s a funny guy.
We talked earlier about some of the smaller feuds you had been doing on and off here around the end of 1978 and into 1979. In the
spring of 1979 one really got heated between you and Wahoo, where you would drop the Georgia belt to him and win it back from
him later. You kind of touched on Wahoo earlier, but elaborate and tell us about what he was like.
He was a great guy. He was a true native Indian, and so is my wife, so they hit it off right away. When we were in Charlotte they used to
look out for each other. He was 120 per cent real man. If he promised you something he would give it to you. He worked hard in the
ring. He was a good interview. He was a good athlete as everybody knows. He didn’t mind getting hurt – preferred to hurt you first.
(Laughs) We had some real knock down drag out matches up there and then he came down here and we had some good matches. He
was in shape – he may not have always looked it, but he was.
You eventually worked with John Studd as a team of Superstar #1 and #2 in the Mid-Atlantic area, but there was a tag team
tournament here for the Georgia Tag Team Title where you teamed with someone who was called Superstar #2. This was way
before you and Studd did that in the Carolinas. Do you recall if that was Studd here, or perhaps it may have been someone else?
I don’t remember – I’m trying to, but I don’t recall it.
It was only a one shot deal so it could have been anybody, but I wanted to see if it may have been Studd.
You know, I remember the event, but since I can’t recall for sure, I’m thinking it wasn’t John. It could have just been someone filling a
hole on the card with me. If it were John, I’m pretty sure I would remember.
That same year, Georgia fans were treated to a lot of AWA talent with Bobby Heenan coming in. He brought in guys like Blackjack
Lanza among others while he was playing out a suspension angle up there. You wound up as part of the Heenan Family during that
time, and teamed with Lanza quite a bit. Tell me what it was like for you to be working with Heenan as a part of his stable, and were
there any prosperous relationships formed as a result of that?
Good relationships even through today. I still bump into the guys even today. Bobby was planning on being here for a long time. Stan
and myself were next door neighbors, and Bobby bought a house about two doors down from me. So he initially planned on being here
for a long time. Lanza was just kind of in and out.
I think he was on a sabbatical from Minnesota. You develop friendships with these guys and they stay friends of yours for a long time. I
don’t think Bobby was as secure here as he was in the AWA because of his relationship with Ole. I think Bobby took things a little too
personal when Ole would bark at him.
We’d talk about it and I’d have to tell him that Ole barked at everybody, and that’s just how he was. Ole would bark at you because he
wanted to make things happen, but that didn’t mean he didn’t like you. He’d bark at you and then ask you to have a cup of coffee with him.
Bobby took so much of that stuff personally. We’d be driving somewhere and he would be down. I’d ask him what was bothering him
and he’d say, “Ole hollered at me.” And I’d say, “Jeez, Bobby, Ole hollers at everybody.” (Laughs) I’d tell him to forget it, and he’d make an
effort to, but he just couldn’t.
I guess that didn’t happen with Verne (Gagne), but then after I worked for Verne I couldn’t believe it never happened. (Laughs) I think his
relationship with Verne had lasted so long that he could overlook it there, but with Ole, he hadn’t had time to get to know Ole well, so he
always thought he was treading on thin ice. He was in a new place and he didn’t want to step on anybody’s toes, so he stayed pretty
quiet for the most part.
So he bought a house thinking he’d be here for the long haul, but then he was booked into a Loser Leaves Match toward the end of
the year.
I think he wanted to go back up. He missed the area.
Did he move back down here again?
I don’t know. I think he moved down to Florida when they went down there, but I don’t know for sure. You know, Bobby’s got a good mind,
and I know Verne saw that, and I’m fairly certain Ole saw it, too. I just don’t think he was comfortable here, and most of his friends were
up there. It’s just like any of us – we all want to be near our friends. My mother died four or five years ago and I tried to get my father to
move down here, but he said, “why would I want to do that? All my friends are up here.”
I always thought it was sort of an odd mix with you being part of the Heenan stable. That’s not to say it didn’t get over because it did,
but I just personally thought it was strange to suddenly pair you up with a manager when you hadn’t used one here earlier in the run.
I think it was just a transition period of trying to get things done. There was a lot of talent here at the time and they were just trying to set
up certain camps. Bobby’s success over the years was because he was known for having warriors and bringing me in was just – they
had Karl Kox here, too, right?
Yeah, he was part of that, and even Ron Bass for a short while. There were a lot of names that became part of that stable that year,
but you and Lanza were the most long lasting.
Some of the interviews that Karl Kox would do didn’t make any sense. If it didn’t make any sense to me I know it didn’t for anyone else.
(Laughs) He used to walk back after them and I’d tell him, “I’m not totally confused, but I almost am.” (Laughs)
Was there ever anyone in your career who stood at the podium with you and as they were talking you’d find yourself fighting
laughter?
Oh, yeah, a lot of guys. Bobby was like that – he was a great ad-libber. He’d think of something off the top of his head and just run with
it. He’d come up with some funny stuff. With a mask on I could just smirk or bite my lip and maybe turn my head a bit and no one would
ever know I was on the verge of breaking up. For other guys they’d have to turn around.
I would think the only way to fight it is to just zone out and stop listening.
Oh, that happened.
You wrestled someone in Atlanta and Augusta that summer, and they respectively went by the names of Mr. Atlanta and Mr.
Augusta. Do you remember who that was?
I’m thinking that might have been Wahoo because they did a thing where he had to leave the area and he’d turn up under the mask. You
know, Dusty was famous for that angle with Uvalde Slim.
Right...
I’m not 100 per cent sure on that, but I’m thinking it was Wahoo. Wahoo used to hate wearing a mask, but he’d want to do the gimmick.
It’s kind of like when we did the Machines later on with the Giant Machine and the Super Machine. The fans are supposed to know who it
was under the masks.
Wahoo never got a mask – you’re supposed to get a mask that comfortably fits your head and face so you don’t even feel it. It’s when you
get one that doesn’t fit that it just doesn’t work, and then you’re more concerned with how uncomfortable the mask is than working in the
matches. Well, Wahoo used to get these cheap masks. Within three minutes he’d be ready to end the match so he could get the damn
thing off his head. (Laughs) I’d say, “Chief, why don’t you pay for one that fits?,” and he’d say, “well, I don’t need one that often.”
It sounds like that’s who it could have been because it was at the end of your program with Wahoo. That Thanksgiving, the Georgia
Tag Team Titles conveniently became vacant as they had in recent years around that same time – (Laughs) – but you and Austin Idol
teamed up and won the tournament and the belts. How did that team come about?
I think they went through and made the pairings, and they probably had mine and his name left over and they needed another team.
(Laughs)
A lot of people talk about that team and wish you guys worked together longer since you were both big guys and had good charisma
on the mic.
He was a strange guy – I got along with him well, but for some reason he rubbed some people the wrong way. He had a good gimmick.
At that time there was no one else who had that obnoxious persona, and he did his job well. Honestly, I think the pairings came up and
they just threw us together.
You dropped the titles fairly quick to the Brisco brothers, so maybe it was just a transitional thing to get them onto them.
Yeah, I don’t think there was any long-term plan for us to be a team. Our styles were so opposite that I think we’d have been okay
together. He did very little wrestling – mostly strutting around and using power moves. He was great doing interviews. I ran into him over
the years many times. He was a very good guy.
By the end of 1979, you and Mr. Wrestling #2 were back in the forefront as the major feud. He left for awhile and they did an
imposter angle with Joe Powell working as #2. Whose creation was that?
I believe it was Ole. He carried it out real well, too. A lot of people swore he was the real Two and not an impostor. You have to give him
credit for pulling that off.
From what I understand, Joe had actually been using that gimmick with some outlaw groups around the southern part of Georgia
who wanted to draw using #2’s name on the card.
Oh, yeah. Well, he did a good job.
When Walker came back, he was supposed to be upset with you for bringing the impostor in, but he was...
Well, I believe he was legitimately upset when he found out.
That’s exactly what I was going to ask you because I know Johnny found out the guy had been billed as Mr. Wrestling #2 around the
state.
I don’t think he ever felt like they were going to replace him with Powell, but he wanted to protect the character he established. I know
through talking to some guys working here at the time that there was some real animosity, but Powell was just trying to make a buck. I
don’t think he was trying to steal Two’s living – he was just doing what was asked of him. I mean, if Two came back and found the guy
working and they were really billing him as Two and had no desire to bring Johnny back in, I could see it making sense for him to be
really upset.
You left Georgia in February 1980 after losing a Cage Match to Mr. Wrestling #2 and went back up to the Mid-Atlantic where you and
Blackjack Mulligan got back into your program. You also began working with John Studd, as we discussed before, as Superstar #2,
against Mulligan and a variety of tag team partners. You told the Mid-Atlantic Gateway that you and Mulligan traded some serious
potato shots with each other. You must have had a great deal of respect for each other to continue to go through that willingly night
after night.
Oh, yeah. Fortunately, I was young and strong at the time, so I was punching him just as hard as he was punching me. I think we just
got caught up in the heat of battle – none of it was intentional, of course. If you know anything about George Scott, he wanted everything
we did to look authentic and real.
Of course, Jack was a good worker, and we just probably got a little over heated, and we’d apologize to each other afterwards. Then the
next night we’d be right back at it. (Laughs) I had some good times then and we had some really great matches together. A lot of fans,
when I go places – especially in Virginia – talk about those matches, so we must have done something right.
After that, you came back and had a short run here in the summer of 1980 and another program with Mr. Wrestling #2. Do you recall
where you went from there?
I think that’s when I went to Mid-South, and I also spent some time working up in Montreal around that time. Dino Bravo and I had worked
together in Japan – as a matter of fact, he was in the Mid-Atlantic when we did the Igor gimmick – and he was also in Japan with me
when we did the same scenario and burnt Inoki with the cigar. He saw that it worked two different times so he suggested we come and
do it in Montreal.
I think before I went up there I went down for a little bit and worked for Watts. I had already promised Dino I would go up to Montreal so
my stay with Watts was short, plus I didn’t want to stick around there too long and go through that travel schedule. I thought the road trips
in Charlotte were long, but they were even worse in Mid-South.
I’ve heard many horror stories about the mileage guys racked up in that territory.
Bill treated me very well, and it was him who wanted me to come in, but I let him know I had committed to Dino and he understood.
What was it like working in Montreal?
Oh, I enjoyed it. It was the most relaxing time I ever had because I was home every night – similar to Georgia. The crowds were very
good. Of course, my wife and family got to come up and they spent two summers up there. I was there almost two whole years.
Dino was real good – he’d invite my family up every other month because he knew I was homesick, especially in the summertime. It was
a nice shopping area, and very cosmopolitan. We had a lot of time off. Even the trips were great because it was a picturesque area. You’
d go through the parks up there and see moose and antelope. It was like a combination of work and vacation.
Some of my best family memories were up there. I’ve always told people that if I had to live somewhere else – and I’m not a cold
weather person – but if I had to go somewhere other than Atlanta, I’d go to Montreal.
My wife has French-Canadian roots and she’s always wanted to go up and see Quebec, so we’re planning to do that in the future.
Oh, it’s beautiful. And we were getting paid in American dollars, and it was about forty cents more. Of course, you get hit with taxes and
stuff so you have to make sure you work that out because they have a state tax and a provincial tax. Still, with the exchange rate you’re in
the positive.
It was a good paying territory?
Oh, yes. The guys were very friendly. Of course, I already knew most of them because a lot of them worked in the Florida, Georgia and
Mid-Atlantic territories for some time. You had the Rougeaus, Martel, Tarzan Tyler all up there at that time.
When you were up there did you ever get a chance to go to work in Nova Scotia?
Yes, and when I first got started with Geto we went up to Nova Scotia. That was my first territory away from home, and we worked for
Rudy Kay.
That was strictly a summer territory, right?
Sure was – there again, I guess Geto had convinced him to run a little longer because they eventually ran into September. I remember
my second daughter was due at any time and they had decided to try and run through the winter. My daughter was born in October, and I
think we were there through about November before breaking and coming home. The reason they shut down is because hockey is so
prevalent up there, and they couldn’t secure consistent nights at the arenas since the hockey schedules were so scattered about. I really
enjoyed it up there.
Geto’s family was from up there. We stayed right at Geto and Heather’s cottage right on the beach – as a matter of fact, that’s what I
named my daughter – but we had lobster traps and a boat, and we’d get up early in the morning and go work out. Then we’d run on the
beach for a little bit and then just go fishing. We’d catch fresh fish every day with our traps and we’d live like kings. It was great.
That sounds great. You came back to Georgia for one shot in April 1981, and I’ve always wondered how this came about – you
teamed up with Mr. Wrestling #2 to face the Andersons, Gene and Ole. It surprised a heck of a lot of fans. Do you know who came
up with that?
It sounds like Ole – as a matter of fact, I think it was. You know where he got that idea was Mulligan and I had had so many battles
together and eventually we teamed up. I don’t know if you know the angle, but he got beat up by a bunch of guys, and he came out and
said, “I know somebody – I don’t like him, blah, blah, blah, and I don’t even know if I trust him, but if he gives me his word I’ll accept his
help.” He called me and we did one of those two-way video conference things, and I think Ole saw how well that went over when they
turned me babyface up there. He probably got it from that. I don’t remember exactly what precipitated it.
I actually had forgotten about that until we started putting together the site and I came across that in some results files. When I saw
it, it kind of all came back to me, and I recall being very surprised because at one time I absolutely hated you.
(Laughs) Well, that’s good because it means I did my job. A lot of people used to say the fans hate you and they don’t like you so how
can you do that? I’d say, “they’re not supposed to like me.” (Laughs)
I may have hated you, but I always respected your work.
Well, I appreciate that. A lot of fans say the same thing to me. George Scott used to tell me, “if you’re controversial, it keeps them talking
about you, and that’s good for business.” George was a good guy – well, he still is – I’m talking about him like he’s dead. (Laughs) He
was very influential on me and my career, and I appreciate everything he did for me. I guess he saw something in me that worked for
both of us so we just capitalized on it.
In July of 1981 you returned and stayed through February of 1982. This was the run with you coming in and wearing both the
Georgia and National Heavyweight belts, ultimately unifying them, and also got into a program with Tommy Rich. It also became
obvious that some fans were becoming burnt out on Tommy and were starting to cheer you despite you being clearly still a heel.
It was hard to have a bad match with Tommy. There are a few guys in this business that could have a cold or a broken arm, but still have
good matches, and Tommy was one of them. There’s not many like that, but Martel, Steamboat, the British Bulldogs were all like that.
Fujinami over in Japan was the same way.
Tommy was pushed as the underdog babyface who did the down home interview. He went out and performed every night, and people
got behind him and he got over. There were a lot of times I could have gone out and done just about anything, but people would cheer for
me.
A lot of the babyfaces couldn’t understand that. Ole was the same way – he could be the meanest heel in the territory, but still have fans.
And I think the mentality was they always kind of hoped you’d flip over and be on their team. It was rarely that way in Tommy’s case, but
there were some babyfaces who would get upset if the fans cheered against them.
During that run you also wound up holding the TV title – you basically cornered the market on the area titles. (Laughs) Later on they
pulled a suspension angle, which was a way to get you on a tour of Japan.
Yeah, I had an understanding with Japan where I’d go over for about fourteen weeks a year. Earlier in my career, people bought that stuff,
but eventually people caught onto the fact that if someone was being suspended they were committed to work somewhere else, usually
Japan.
I think it fooled the people for awhile, but it eventually became too hard to hide. I think they should have gotten to where they just came
right out and said so-and-so is in Japan. As a matter of fact, at one time up in Montreal, we would do like eight or nine interviews and
while I was in Japan, they would show these interviews. I think that was good because it showed there was wrestling elsewhere, and
you were in demand.
Years ago they could have capitalized on a lot of things, but everyone was so protective of their own promotions that they never really
wanted to acknowledge that wrestling existed beyond their territory except the World champion. I could never figure that out. You have an
NWA champion coming in – well, where did he come from? (Laughs)
As if we’re supposed to believe the NWA Champ is sitting at his house for months on end waiting to come back to Georgia to defend
his belt. (Laughs)
Exactly.
Continued
I appreciate it. He would probably tell you the same thing – as a matter of fact, he did in your interview with him – you have to express
your identity – even though you wear a mask. And when you wear a mask, there’s a lot of mystery there.
Believe it or not, about six months ago, I was talking to a guy and he stopped me and said, “aren’t you...?” (Laughs) I get that all the time
when people hear me talk, and they tell me they know who I am, and it’s because they paid attention to what I had to say.
Boris was good, too, and he had a philosophy that holds true today – you’ve got Johnny Carson, Jay Leno, David Letterman, and all these
talk shows – if you go out and express something and hold their interest, they’re going to listen and not change the channel. That’s one
of the things he told me, and the other was that you need to pay attention to the other people in the territory. If they’re screaming, you talk,
and if they’re talking, you scream.
A lot of guys nowadays try to emulate Flair, but there’s only one Flair. If you’re different than everyone else and you make that your niche,
people are going to listen. Everybody now is all the same – they’re all yelling at you. The one thing the babyface can’t do is make a
promise he can’t keep. If he says he’s going to break your neck, he’d better break your neck. He should say, “I’m going to try my
darndest to break your neck.” Then later he can say, “I tried, but it was unsuccessful.” A heel can say anything because he can come
back and deny it when it doesn’t happen. (Laughs)
One guy who was very good about that was Wahoo McDaniel – he used to get into shouting matches with Ole and George Scott. He’d
say, “I’m not going to say that because if I say it and I don’t do it, it demeans me,” and that’s absolutely true.
You lose your credibility...
Yeah...
You talk about talking and screaming in interviews – and this is probably why you were the first heel I ever cheered – you know, I
was a little impressionable ten year old who chose to go over to the darkside with the Masked Superstar (Laughs) – I think it meant
more when you did come out and raised your voice because you really knew the Superstar was mad.
Well, it means something special. I learned that from one of the guys who was an old school football coach. He was like Vince
Lombardi and he would come out and scream and yell. Well if you’re a freshman or sophomore, you’re intimidated, but by the time you’
re a junior or senior, you’re immune to it.
When I got into coaching I had a guy over me who was a calm guy, so when he said something it stuck. When they were upset, they
might throw a curse word in, and it showed he was upset. There’s no difference in the wrestling business. How many times do you
listen to Flair anymore? He’s always saying the same thing in the same way. He’s a good friend of mine, but he’s done the same
interview so many times that the same people aren’t listening to him anymore. If they’d get somebody up there who’d talk calmly and
deliberately, people might sit back and say, “we’d better watch this guy because he’s serious.”
The Superstar gimmick really got hot quickly and stayed hot from 1976 through 1978 in Crockett’s area, and you had program’s
going on with the Mighty Igor, Blackjack Mulligan and Paul Jones. You also started using the Cobra hold and the stipulation that if
anyone broke it you’d paid them $1,000.
That really started out of the gate. George wanted us to have a certain type of hold, so in my very first matches I was already using it. I
had seen that in Japan when Baba was using it and learned how to apply it. When I saw Baba doing it, he had already become so frail
that it didn’t look strong anymore. But I thought it was a pretty good move, so when we started training with Malenko, I decided to start
using it and it became a good signature move.
I know in Georgia there was at least one booking where the hold was broken in Georgia, but did they ever work it to be broken in the
Carolinas?
No, not even Andre.
So George Scott wouldn’t allow that to happen?
Right. We made it to the ropes – there were ways to get out of it, but we always did it so that it was me releasing it. Once it was on, it was
on, and people knew it was the end of the match.
And Malenko’s lighting up a cigar...
(Laughs) He hated smoking, too. He would dread that the whole night. He was a health fanatic. He would do his squats and pushups
everyday. He didn’t drink, but he’d have a soda every once in awhile. He literally would dread that cigar bit everyday.
Was it his idea?
Well, it was a combination of ideas, and I don’t think he realized when he agreed to make it part of the character that it would bother him
as much as it did. It turned out to be good.
And, of course, it led to the burning of Igor, and many more turns around the world over the years...
Fourteen years in Japan alone, over one cigar.
When you first came to Georgia Championship Wrestling in the fall of 1978, you worked a few brief programs with guys like Dick
Slater and Rick Martel. There was already a buildup though toward a feud between you and Mr. Wrestling #2. You would come out
on TV and stand in the shadows and watch his matches, and the same kind of thing around the loop for several weeks. That clearly
made the angle that much hotter when it finally came about. Tell me about working with Mr. Wrestling #2, and what kind of
relationship did you have with Johnny Walker?
When I first got here, if you remember, every other guy in the ring had a mask on. Part of the success in Charlotte was that there was only
one masked man. Even when Rocky Johnson came in up there under a hood, George didn’t really do anything with him because he
already had a masked man. To him it was like having two Ric Flair’s or two Ricky Steamboat’s. Ole had basically the same idea when
he asked me to come down – and originally it was only supposed to be for six weeks, but wound up being many years (Laughs) – but
that was his concept. Ole wanted to get rid of some masked men...
Well, they had brought in so many to work the angle around the bounty put up by King Kong Mosca to try and keep the Georgia
Heavyweight Title, and it just sort of got out of hand. As a matter of fact, Len Denton was working on the undercard here, but was
pulling double duty as the Grappler, which was born from that angle around Mosca.
Len’s a good guy – a good worker. Anyway, all I had heard about Walker was bad. Everybody would tell me he didn’t always want to go
along with the programs, and that he was stubborn, but I never found him that way. Our styles really meshed right away.
As you said before, he’s the top babyface, and here I come in as the heel, and I’m threatening him. I eliminated all the masked men and
eventually it was down to me and Two, and I had been responsible for taking all these guys masks off when I beat them. So it was only
logical it was going to get down to me and him.
He had good charisma, he did a good interview, he was cautious, when he was mad he spoke up, and he never promised anything he
couldn’t produce, so people believed in him. And when he cocked that knee, you felt it. That knee was stiff. (Laughs) I think he probably
hit me with that once and I wasn’t looking for it when he did it, and it was probably the hardest I’d ever been hit in my life.
You had to be careful because if you were in a prone position on all fours, he might give you that knee out of the blue. He got me one
time – me and Heenan were down there in Columbus – and for some reason I spun around on my hands and knees and there came
that knee. I couldn’t move. Bobby leans in and says, “what the hell are you doing?”, and I told him I couldn’t move. I learned that way.
It wasn’t his fault because he thought I was feeding him. We went so many times and had so many good matches. He was the kind of
guy that if he felt secure and comfortable with you, he would try stuff. We never sat down and talked careers, but I imagine someone
somewhere had tried to shaft him so he became cautious.
Well, he did work for Nick Gulas quite a lot. (Laughs)
I hope he would say the same thing about me, but I felt we had a good relationship with him. I enjoyed seeing him in Columbus a few
years back, and he and I made quite a bit of money together over the years. There’s still people who once they find out who I am they ask
me about those matches, so we must have made a good impression.
Definitely.
There were a lot of guys that didn’t want to work with him for whatever reason, and there were probably just as many guys that didn’t want
to work with me. I was always in good shape, and when I first went up to New York under the mask, there were a lot of lazy guys up
there. I remember John Studd said, “Bill’s here. A lot of you babyfaces are going to have to move or throw up.” (Laughs)
That was the M. O. that Boris had given me. You know in Japan you had to move, move, move, and if these guys weren’t in shape, they
were going to end up selling for you because their tongues were hanging out. Stan Hansen learned the same thing and so did Bruiser
Brody. I always prided myself on being in good shape. Two was always in great shape. Wahoo was another one. Some guys weren’t,
and more often than not, you’d see some of these guys heaving on the floor.
Also during your first run for Georgia Championship Wrestling, you added a stipulation to the effect that if anyone could force you to
submit or could beat you by pinfall, you would give them $1,000. Did that finish ever get booked here?
I don’t think so.
Ole and Gene were booking here at the time, right?
Yeah. One thing you have to realize is that bookers would add stipulations that I never even knew about. (Laughs) When I was in New
York, Pat Patterson said if I won the WWF Title I would take my mask off. Hell, I never said anything like that. (Laughs) I wouldn’t have
done it. I believe that was even raised here to $5,000 at one point.
You won the Georgia Heavyweight Title just before the end of 1978 as the feud with Mr. Wrestling #2 was escalating.
Right.
You also teamed with Stan Hansen quite a bit, and I’ve noticed you would be booked in a lot of on and off again angles here during
that time with all the other top faces, but the one with Mr. Wrestling #2 never went away.
No, that was one that lasted a long time, and was quite lucrative.
A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that Gene and Ole weren’t good bookers, but...
Well, I beg to differ with them.
I agree. I think they booked some really good stuff here.
Ole’s a good friend of mine, and I think there’s a lot of personal jealousy around the fact that he did do a good job. He was brash and
would say what he wanted to say. He was honest and he didn’t pull any punches.
A lot of guys took offense to that because they only wanted to hear how good they were. Sometimes guys would ask me if I watched their
matches, and I would say, “let me qualify this before I do. Do you want me to watch your match and tell you what you did and how you
could improve, or do you just want me to tell you how good you are?” (Laughs) As it turns out, a lot of the guys didn’t want constructive
criticism – they just wanted to hear how good they looked.
Ole was a hard worker, and he never asked anyone to do anything he wasn’t going to do. He gave 150 per cent, and he expected
everyone else to do the same. I think there was a lot of jealousy about the fact he was in charge, but it was a free country, and if they didn’
t like the way he ran things they could go work somewhere else. I think they had great ideas. I bumped into him not too long ago and we
reminisced a little bit.
Yeah, he seems to be doing really well these days.
Yeah, he looks good, too.
You know about his book coming out, right?
No, did he write a book?
Well, he and Scott Teal worked on it for about two years or more.
Did Ole do any of the writing? (Laughs)
I’m not sure who did the talking and writing...
Well, if it’s full of curse words we’ll know who wrote it. (Laughs)
I’ve been fortunate enough to sit in a room and listen to him tell some stories and he’s great at it.
Yeah, he’s a funny guy.
We talked earlier about some of the smaller feuds you had been doing on and off here around the end of 1978 and into 1979. In the
spring of 1979 one really got heated between you and Wahoo, where you would drop the Georgia belt to him and win it back from
him later. You kind of touched on Wahoo earlier, but elaborate and tell us about what he was like.
He was a great guy. He was a true native Indian, and so is my wife, so they hit it off right away. When we were in Charlotte they used to
look out for each other. He was 120 per cent real man. If he promised you something he would give it to you. He worked hard in the
ring. He was a good interview. He was a good athlete as everybody knows. He didn’t mind getting hurt – preferred to hurt you first.
(Laughs) We had some real knock down drag out matches up there and then he came down here and we had some good matches. He
was in shape – he may not have always looked it, but he was.
You eventually worked with John Studd as a team of Superstar #1 and #2 in the Mid-Atlantic area, but there was a tag team
tournament here for the Georgia Tag Team Title where you teamed with someone who was called Superstar #2. This was way
before you and Studd did that in the Carolinas. Do you recall if that was Studd here, or perhaps it may have been someone else?
I don’t remember – I’m trying to, but I don’t recall it.
It was only a one shot deal so it could have been anybody, but I wanted to see if it may have been Studd.
You know, I remember the event, but since I can’t recall for sure, I’m thinking it wasn’t John. It could have just been someone filling a
hole on the card with me. If it were John, I’m pretty sure I would remember.
That same year, Georgia fans were treated to a lot of AWA talent with Bobby Heenan coming in. He brought in guys like Blackjack
Lanza among others while he was playing out a suspension angle up there. You wound up as part of the Heenan Family during that
time, and teamed with Lanza quite a bit. Tell me what it was like for you to be working with Heenan as a part of his stable, and were
there any prosperous relationships formed as a result of that?
Good relationships even through today. I still bump into the guys even today. Bobby was planning on being here for a long time. Stan
and myself were next door neighbors, and Bobby bought a house about two doors down from me. So he initially planned on being here
for a long time. Lanza was just kind of in and out.
I think he was on a sabbatical from Minnesota. You develop friendships with these guys and they stay friends of yours for a long time. I
don’t think Bobby was as secure here as he was in the AWA because of his relationship with Ole. I think Bobby took things a little too
personal when Ole would bark at him.
We’d talk about it and I’d have to tell him that Ole barked at everybody, and that’s just how he was. Ole would bark at you because he
wanted to make things happen, but that didn’t mean he didn’t like you. He’d bark at you and then ask you to have a cup of coffee with him.
Bobby took so much of that stuff personally. We’d be driving somewhere and he would be down. I’d ask him what was bothering him
and he’d say, “Ole hollered at me.” And I’d say, “Jeez, Bobby, Ole hollers at everybody.” (Laughs) I’d tell him to forget it, and he’d make an
effort to, but he just couldn’t.
I guess that didn’t happen with Verne (Gagne), but then after I worked for Verne I couldn’t believe it never happened. (Laughs) I think his
relationship with Verne had lasted so long that he could overlook it there, but with Ole, he hadn’t had time to get to know Ole well, so he
always thought he was treading on thin ice. He was in a new place and he didn’t want to step on anybody’s toes, so he stayed pretty
quiet for the most part.
So he bought a house thinking he’d be here for the long haul, but then he was booked into a Loser Leaves Match toward the end of
the year.
I think he wanted to go back up. He missed the area.
Did he move back down here again?
I don’t know. I think he moved down to Florida when they went down there, but I don’t know for sure. You know, Bobby’s got a good mind,
and I know Verne saw that, and I’m fairly certain Ole saw it, too. I just don’t think he was comfortable here, and most of his friends were
up there. It’s just like any of us – we all want to be near our friends. My mother died four or five years ago and I tried to get my father to
move down here, but he said, “why would I want to do that? All my friends are up here.”
I always thought it was sort of an odd mix with you being part of the Heenan stable. That’s not to say it didn’t get over because it did,
but I just personally thought it was strange to suddenly pair you up with a manager when you hadn’t used one here earlier in the run.
I think it was just a transition period of trying to get things done. There was a lot of talent here at the time and they were just trying to set
up certain camps. Bobby’s success over the years was because he was known for having warriors and bringing me in was just – they
had Karl Kox here, too, right?
Yeah, he was part of that, and even Ron Bass for a short while. There were a lot of names that became part of that stable that year,
but you and Lanza were the most long lasting.
Some of the interviews that Karl Kox would do didn’t make any sense. If it didn’t make any sense to me I know it didn’t for anyone else.
(Laughs) He used to walk back after them and I’d tell him, “I’m not totally confused, but I almost am.” (Laughs)
Was there ever anyone in your career who stood at the podium with you and as they were talking you’d find yourself fighting
laughter?
Oh, yeah, a lot of guys. Bobby was like that – he was a great ad-libber. He’d think of something off the top of his head and just run with
it. He’d come up with some funny stuff. With a mask on I could just smirk or bite my lip and maybe turn my head a bit and no one would
ever know I was on the verge of breaking up. For other guys they’d have to turn around.
I would think the only way to fight it is to just zone out and stop listening.
Oh, that happened.
You wrestled someone in Atlanta and Augusta that summer, and they respectively went by the names of Mr. Atlanta and Mr.
Augusta. Do you remember who that was?
I’m thinking that might have been Wahoo because they did a thing where he had to leave the area and he’d turn up under the mask. You
know, Dusty was famous for that angle with Uvalde Slim.
Right...
I’m not 100 per cent sure on that, but I’m thinking it was Wahoo. Wahoo used to hate wearing a mask, but he’d want to do the gimmick.
It’s kind of like when we did the Machines later on with the Giant Machine and the Super Machine. The fans are supposed to know who it
was under the masks.
Wahoo never got a mask – you’re supposed to get a mask that comfortably fits your head and face so you don’t even feel it. It’s when you
get one that doesn’t fit that it just doesn’t work, and then you’re more concerned with how uncomfortable the mask is than working in the
matches. Well, Wahoo used to get these cheap masks. Within three minutes he’d be ready to end the match so he could get the damn
thing off his head. (Laughs) I’d say, “Chief, why don’t you pay for one that fits?,” and he’d say, “well, I don’t need one that often.”
It sounds like that’s who it could have been because it was at the end of your program with Wahoo. That Thanksgiving, the Georgia
Tag Team Titles conveniently became vacant as they had in recent years around that same time – (Laughs) – but you and Austin Idol
teamed up and won the tournament and the belts. How did that team come about?
I think they went through and made the pairings, and they probably had mine and his name left over and they needed another team.
(Laughs)
A lot of people talk about that team and wish you guys worked together longer since you were both big guys and had good charisma
on the mic.
He was a strange guy – I got along with him well, but for some reason he rubbed some people the wrong way. He had a good gimmick.
At that time there was no one else who had that obnoxious persona, and he did his job well. Honestly, I think the pairings came up and
they just threw us together.
You dropped the titles fairly quick to the Brisco brothers, so maybe it was just a transitional thing to get them onto them.
Yeah, I don’t think there was any long-term plan for us to be a team. Our styles were so opposite that I think we’d have been okay
together. He did very little wrestling – mostly strutting around and using power moves. He was great doing interviews. I ran into him over
the years many times. He was a very good guy.
By the end of 1979, you and Mr. Wrestling #2 were back in the forefront as the major feud. He left for awhile and they did an
imposter angle with Joe Powell working as #2. Whose creation was that?
I believe it was Ole. He carried it out real well, too. A lot of people swore he was the real Two and not an impostor. You have to give him
credit for pulling that off.
From what I understand, Joe had actually been using that gimmick with some outlaw groups around the southern part of Georgia
who wanted to draw using #2’s name on the card.
Oh, yeah. Well, he did a good job.
When Walker came back, he was supposed to be upset with you for bringing the impostor in, but he was...
Well, I believe he was legitimately upset when he found out.
That’s exactly what I was going to ask you because I know Johnny found out the guy had been billed as Mr. Wrestling #2 around the
state.
I don’t think he ever felt like they were going to replace him with Powell, but he wanted to protect the character he established. I know
through talking to some guys working here at the time that there was some real animosity, but Powell was just trying to make a buck. I
don’t think he was trying to steal Two’s living – he was just doing what was asked of him. I mean, if Two came back and found the guy
working and they were really billing him as Two and had no desire to bring Johnny back in, I could see it making sense for him to be
really upset.
You left Georgia in February 1980 after losing a Cage Match to Mr. Wrestling #2 and went back up to the Mid-Atlantic where you and
Blackjack Mulligan got back into your program. You also began working with John Studd, as we discussed before, as Superstar #2,
against Mulligan and a variety of tag team partners. You told the Mid-Atlantic Gateway that you and Mulligan traded some serious
potato shots with each other. You must have had a great deal of respect for each other to continue to go through that willingly night
after night.
Oh, yeah. Fortunately, I was young and strong at the time, so I was punching him just as hard as he was punching me. I think we just
got caught up in the heat of battle – none of it was intentional, of course. If you know anything about George Scott, he wanted everything
we did to look authentic and real.
Of course, Jack was a good worker, and we just probably got a little over heated, and we’d apologize to each other afterwards. Then the
next night we’d be right back at it. (Laughs) I had some good times then and we had some really great matches together. A lot of fans,
when I go places – especially in Virginia – talk about those matches, so we must have done something right.
After that, you came back and had a short run here in the summer of 1980 and another program with Mr. Wrestling #2. Do you recall
where you went from there?
I think that’s when I went to Mid-South, and I also spent some time working up in Montreal around that time. Dino Bravo and I had worked
together in Japan – as a matter of fact, he was in the Mid-Atlantic when we did the Igor gimmick – and he was also in Japan with me
when we did the same scenario and burnt Inoki with the cigar. He saw that it worked two different times so he suggested we come and
do it in Montreal.
I think before I went up there I went down for a little bit and worked for Watts. I had already promised Dino I would go up to Montreal so
my stay with Watts was short, plus I didn’t want to stick around there too long and go through that travel schedule. I thought the road trips
in Charlotte were long, but they were even worse in Mid-South.
I’ve heard many horror stories about the mileage guys racked up in that territory.
Bill treated me very well, and it was him who wanted me to come in, but I let him know I had committed to Dino and he understood.
What was it like working in Montreal?
Oh, I enjoyed it. It was the most relaxing time I ever had because I was home every night – similar to Georgia. The crowds were very
good. Of course, my wife and family got to come up and they spent two summers up there. I was there almost two whole years.
Dino was real good – he’d invite my family up every other month because he knew I was homesick, especially in the summertime. It was
a nice shopping area, and very cosmopolitan. We had a lot of time off. Even the trips were great because it was a picturesque area. You’
d go through the parks up there and see moose and antelope. It was like a combination of work and vacation.
Some of my best family memories were up there. I’ve always told people that if I had to live somewhere else – and I’m not a cold
weather person – but if I had to go somewhere other than Atlanta, I’d go to Montreal.
My wife has French-Canadian roots and she’s always wanted to go up and see Quebec, so we’re planning to do that in the future.
Oh, it’s beautiful. And we were getting paid in American dollars, and it was about forty cents more. Of course, you get hit with taxes and
stuff so you have to make sure you work that out because they have a state tax and a provincial tax. Still, with the exchange rate you’re in
the positive.
It was a good paying territory?
Oh, yes. The guys were very friendly. Of course, I already knew most of them because a lot of them worked in the Florida, Georgia and
Mid-Atlantic territories for some time. You had the Rougeaus, Martel, Tarzan Tyler all up there at that time.
When you were up there did you ever get a chance to go to work in Nova Scotia?
Yes, and when I first got started with Geto we went up to Nova Scotia. That was my first territory away from home, and we worked for
Rudy Kay.
That was strictly a summer territory, right?
Sure was – there again, I guess Geto had convinced him to run a little longer because they eventually ran into September. I remember
my second daughter was due at any time and they had decided to try and run through the winter. My daughter was born in October, and I
think we were there through about November before breaking and coming home. The reason they shut down is because hockey is so
prevalent up there, and they couldn’t secure consistent nights at the arenas since the hockey schedules were so scattered about. I really
enjoyed it up there.
Geto’s family was from up there. We stayed right at Geto and Heather’s cottage right on the beach – as a matter of fact, that’s what I
named my daughter – but we had lobster traps and a boat, and we’d get up early in the morning and go work out. Then we’d run on the
beach for a little bit and then just go fishing. We’d catch fresh fish every day with our traps and we’d live like kings. It was great.
That sounds great. You came back to Georgia for one shot in April 1981, and I’ve always wondered how this came about – you
teamed up with Mr. Wrestling #2 to face the Andersons, Gene and Ole. It surprised a heck of a lot of fans. Do you know who came
up with that?
It sounds like Ole – as a matter of fact, I think it was. You know where he got that idea was Mulligan and I had had so many battles
together and eventually we teamed up. I don’t know if you know the angle, but he got beat up by a bunch of guys, and he came out and
said, “I know somebody – I don’t like him, blah, blah, blah, and I don’t even know if I trust him, but if he gives me his word I’ll accept his
help.” He called me and we did one of those two-way video conference things, and I think Ole saw how well that went over when they
turned me babyface up there. He probably got it from that. I don’t remember exactly what precipitated it.
I actually had forgotten about that until we started putting together the site and I came across that in some results files. When I saw
it, it kind of all came back to me, and I recall being very surprised because at one time I absolutely hated you.
(Laughs) Well, that’s good because it means I did my job. A lot of people used to say the fans hate you and they don’t like you so how
can you do that? I’d say, “they’re not supposed to like me.” (Laughs)
I may have hated you, but I always respected your work.
Well, I appreciate that. A lot of fans say the same thing to me. George Scott used to tell me, “if you’re controversial, it keeps them talking
about you, and that’s good for business.” George was a good guy – well, he still is – I’m talking about him like he’s dead. (Laughs) He
was very influential on me and my career, and I appreciate everything he did for me. I guess he saw something in me that worked for
both of us so we just capitalized on it.
In July of 1981 you returned and stayed through February of 1982. This was the run with you coming in and wearing both the
Georgia and National Heavyweight belts, ultimately unifying them, and also got into a program with Tommy Rich. It also became
obvious that some fans were becoming burnt out on Tommy and were starting to cheer you despite you being clearly still a heel.
It was hard to have a bad match with Tommy. There are a few guys in this business that could have a cold or a broken arm, but still have
good matches, and Tommy was one of them. There’s not many like that, but Martel, Steamboat, the British Bulldogs were all like that.
Fujinami over in Japan was the same way.
Tommy was pushed as the underdog babyface who did the down home interview. He went out and performed every night, and people
got behind him and he got over. There were a lot of times I could have gone out and done just about anything, but people would cheer for
me.
A lot of the babyfaces couldn’t understand that. Ole was the same way – he could be the meanest heel in the territory, but still have fans.
And I think the mentality was they always kind of hoped you’d flip over and be on their team. It was rarely that way in Tommy’s case, but
there were some babyfaces who would get upset if the fans cheered against them.
During that run you also wound up holding the TV title – you basically cornered the market on the area titles. (Laughs) Later on they
pulled a suspension angle, which was a way to get you on a tour of Japan.
Yeah, I had an understanding with Japan where I’d go over for about fourteen weeks a year. Earlier in my career, people bought that stuff,
but eventually people caught onto the fact that if someone was being suspended they were committed to work somewhere else, usually
Japan.
I think it fooled the people for awhile, but it eventually became too hard to hide. I think they should have gotten to where they just came
right out and said so-and-so is in Japan. As a matter of fact, at one time up in Montreal, we would do like eight or nine interviews and
while I was in Japan, they would show these interviews. I think that was good because it showed there was wrestling elsewhere, and
you were in demand.
Years ago they could have capitalized on a lot of things, but everyone was so protective of their own promotions that they never really
wanted to acknowledge that wrestling existed beyond their territory except the World champion. I could never figure that out. You have an
NWA champion coming in – well, where did he come from? (Laughs)
As if we’re supposed to believe the NWA Champ is sitting at his house for months on end waiting to come back to Georgia to defend
his belt. (Laughs)
Exactly.
Continued
| CONVERSATIONS |
