| CONVERSATIONS |
The following is the first half of an interview with Ken Wayne conducted by Jeff Luce in 2004. Luce once ran a website dedicated to the
history of the Southeastern/Continental/Gulf Coast territories, and recently donated the portion of the interview he was able to preserve.
Wayne, one half of the famed Nightmares with Danny Davis in the 1980s, was born into a wrestling family being the son of Buddy Wayne,
whose tradition continued with Ken’s son Eric as well. Ken, who retired a couple of years after this interview was conducted, is still
very hands on in training and working with aspiring young wrestlers.
history of the Southeastern/Continental/Gulf Coast territories, and recently donated the portion of the interview he was able to preserve.
Wayne, one half of the famed Nightmares with Danny Davis in the 1980s, was born into a wrestling family being the son of Buddy Wayne,
whose tradition continued with Ken’s son Eric as well. Ken, who retired a couple of years after this interview was conducted, is still
very hands on in training and working with aspiring young wrestlers.
I remember reading somewhere that you had been around the wrestling business since you were about four years old. Can you tell
us a little bit about the influence your dad (Buddy Wayne) had on your career?
Well, let’s see I guess the best way to put it was I been wrestling for about five years before I realized I didn’t have a shot at doing
anything else. Basically I looked at it
You got your start if I remember correctly in Billy Golden’s Tri-State Promotion in Montgomery right?
No, no, no. I first started with Jerry Jarrett up in Springfield, KY. The thing with Billy Golden, that was my dad and Jimmy Golden down
there. I wasn’t but about 14 or 15. I ring announce and stuff like that, but I had already been doing that stuff.
Kind of like how your son Eric was refereeing this last Continental reunion show right?
Right. He referees just about every show I go to now.
That’s how a lot of guys got started in the business.
Right. I did the same thing, even when I was little, six or seven years old I would help with tickets, anything. When I was about eight or
nine, I would sell pictures. In fact, my dad, what he did was he bought the first 100 pictures, back then they were black and white 8X10s. Iâ
€™d sell them for $1.00 a piece. Well, generally I’d sell them all in one night. I would give him his $25 back, cleared me $75. I would
work the concession stands, set up the chairs.
Finally, when I got a little older, I started refereeing. Of course, once I got my drivers license, I started hauling the ring by myself. I think it
definitely gives a guy more appreciation for the business to come up like that.
You definitely grew up in this business. You were saying you started out working with Jerry Jarrett in Kentucky. Do you have any
memories of working out there? Was that before he took over (Nick) Gulas’ promotion?
He had already split from Gulas. This was in 1979. Actually, Robert Fuller was the booker. Robert had a problem with guys staying. Theyâ
€™d all leave. I was hauling the ring, somebody didn’t show up. It took me for ever to convince them to let me wrestle. The hardest
thing I ever had was getting my first match. They all knew me. The thing was I was around them all the time. A lot of them, even with
Jimmy Golden, even though I was 20 years old or so, they still looked at me as that kid from before. It’s kind of like if you know
somebody when they’re eight, nine, 10 years old, and then when they’re 25 years old, in your mind you still see that 10 year old.
I think that was kind of a thing there too you know. I had tights, boots, and I was ready to go. I had been lifting weights for a couple of
years; I was ready, you know. About three and half, four months later, Fuller left, Robert that is. Most of the crew went with him, what was
left of his crew. That’s when we did the thing with Tommy and Eddie Gilbert. That’s really how I got my start.
You and Eddie have a history in the business, going back all the way to 1979, Continental all the way to Puerto Rico.
We were also in WCW. He let me privy to a lot of information I probably wasn’t supposed to have. I was able to see a lot of the things
going on that a lot of the guys didn’t notice. A lot of it was observation, but conversations with Eddie too. We always talked. That was
the thing about the business. There were times in other places, he’d want me to come in, but the timing wasn’t right or whatever.
As it turned out, we had a long history that should have been a lot longer.
Yeah, and it’s a shame because Eddie was one of my favorites too. Now after you had worked out there with Jarrett in Kentucky,
how much longer until you had went out to California. That’s where you started to really put it all together, right?
Right. I left here. I did a couple little things around here. I did the Jarrett thing. Of course, that covers Kentucky, Mississippi, Arkansas,
Alabama, Missouri, and Louisiana. We even went up to Ohio once. Then I left and went to work over in Tulsa for Leroy McGuirk. I injured
my back about three months in.
I ended up having to take off; I was hurting. I kept wrestling for three weeks. I finally realized that I was hurt too bad. I came back to
Memphis, healed up, and worked for them again, for a little while, not long. Went back to Tulsa, but things were kind of falling a part out
there. All this happened within about two years.
So all this happened between 79 and 81?
Right.
Then you went out to California to work for Mike LeBell?
Yeah, LeBell. Tom Renesto was the booker. I got out there, and that’s when things really started to change. That’s where it all fell
together. That’s where I learned how to do an interview. I got that from Gene LeBell.
From Gene?
Yeah, Gene was the one who smartened me up to how to do an interview.
Jody Hamilton said it was Tom Renesto that taught him how to do an interview, and I thought maybe it would be Tom, but Gene
LeBell, that kind of surprises me.
Well, I think Tom helped; I know he did, you know. But the one that pushed it over the edge and made it crystal clear to me was Gene
LeBell. I remember where it was. We were in the process of changing buildings; in fact, we already changed buildings from the Olympic
over to the Sports Arena. Out there it took all day to do interviews. I don’t know why it took so long. You figured in Hollywood it would
go pretty quick, but it takes forever to make a movie too. It’s not like TV here [Memphis] or New York where it’s fast. Out there it
was just slow, and when we’d take a break, I’d walk across the parking lot from the Coliseum where they played football. I used
to go over there and walk on the field on our break.
One of those things in my mind that was real nostalgic. I could be in there by myself. I could go out on the field, you know. He saw me go
out there one day and said, “wait up Kenny.� We walked right out there on the football field talking, and he started telling me things
about how to let loose, the wilder you could be, voice inflection. In my mind it was like it was yesterday. Then I put it all together. Maybe he
just had the right words at the time. He put it all together for me. I felt like going back to that day, I started cutting better interviews right
then. Gene, I don’t know if he remembers me or not, but that was him that put all that together for me. Made me understand, see
clearly.
I remember you being in Continental. You’d do such amazing things in the ring, flying through the ropes, all the twists and turns.
There were a lot of luchadores in California. Is that where you picked that style up?
Yeah, I picked a lot of that up out there. Actually, I started to pick a little up here and in Tulsa. Didn’t use much of it. One of the guys I
was getting it from was Hector Guerrero. I was here in Tennessee with Hector; I was in Tulsa with Hector. Later I was in California with
Hector. I got a lot of things from him. Some of it I got up in Canada. Had a lot of Japanese and English boys. Well, the English style is a
little different. They had Japanese guys coming in doing the luchadore stuff too. That’s where basically I got a lot of it too. I watched a
lot of tape of what Tiger Mask was doing.
Tiger Mask was something else.
Awesome. I got a tape recently, a best of Tiger Mask. I was watching, had things I forgotten about. I watched a lot of tapes, still watch a lot
of tapes.
Speaking of Tiger Mask, I was reading that you said that Buck Robley booked you in Kansas City as Tiger Mask II, and you didn’t
really want to do that gimmick.
Right. I didn’t mind doing the gimmick. I didn’t like being called Tiger Mask. He was booking me straight as Tiger Mask, trying to
pass me off as Sayama. I went man, wait a minute. One, I thought it was an insult to Tiger Mask. Two, buddy there’s not but one Tiger
Mask.
Exactly.
What if somebody from one of the magazines comes up and wants to do an interview with me? I told Buck if there’s an interview, I
don’t know what to tell them. It’s obvious I’m not Sayama. Cause I had been doing some things in Georgia as the Stray Cat,
which it worked out at that time, because the “Stray Cat� song was popular.
It was kind of a hit, you know, and I liked it because it was still the same Tiger Mask gimmick, except out there [Georgia] they had the
song and my interviews would be that jive stuff, like Troy Graham used to do. I had some difficulty doing them and all that stuff, which I
had to sit with Jimmy Cornett for hours to learn the rhythms. He had to help me with the words; he knew them all. But I didn’t like
being called Tiger Mask. I thought the Stray Cat thing was good enough, and there was a record on the radio to use as intro music.
After California, I believe you went up to Calgary.
Nope, I went back to Memphis, and that’s where me and Danny first got together.
You did a lot of moving around when you first started in the business. Was that so you could learn as much as you could?
Well, my first thought when I first got started was to go into as much of the territories as I possibly could, meet the different guys and to
learn the different styles. Everywhere I wrestled was a little different. The way you wrestled in Tulsa, you wrestled differently in Los
Angeles; you wrestled differently in, say, Dothan. You know different styles. So the thing that happened when I got back here [Memphis],
Danny and I got together as the Nightmare and Speed. I forget how long, maybe six, seven, eight months. Then Stu Hart called us to
come up to Calgary, which was like three or four months in advance. Yeah, we’ll go. Like I say, I wanted to meet Stu Hart.
In the meantime, Danny wanted to take some time off to spend with his family before we went up there. So for six weeks I went to San
Antonio to work for the Blanchard’s, because I didn’t want to be off for like two months. I wanted to work. I took two weeks off and
then went in. In fact, Buck Robley, who was doing the booking for San Antonio at the time, I was there a month and gave my two weeks
notice. He got offended. He was getting ready to shoot an angle with me. I had to leave. I gave the man [Hart] my word that I’m
coming up to Calgary. I took two weeks off and went up there.
I have a tape of you working in San Antonio.
Really?
Yeah. It’s only one match. It was a tag match. Of course, the announcer put you over as having come right in from California. You
teamed with a Mexican wrestler, who was an enhancement talent. It still gave you a chance to get over, working against Ken Lucas
and Ricky Morton. Of course, you know your partner took the fall. How did you feel coming into the company having to team with a
job guy, no disrespect that was his role with the company, when you’re trying to get yourself over?
That didn’t bother me, for a couple reasons. One, I was only going to be there for six weeks. Now if I went in with long term
expectations, it may have bothered me, but the first week or two, it generally doesn’t bother me on something like that. Because I
understand sometimes, although Buck Robley knew what I could or couldn’t do and so forth, at the time a lot of kids saw the lights.
So really it didn’t bother me with that knowledge in my mind. But I also know the company; they already have things in place that they
got to do before they can do anything with a new guy.
Having been around the business, especially looking back on it, having done the booking in several places I understand totally. I didnâ
€™t take it as a slight or anything. It’s business. They needed to get those guys over and was able to do it without hurting me. It didnâ
€™t do anything for me, didn’t hurt me; didn’t helped me, you know what I mean. Without seeing the match, I’m guessing
that Ricky and Ken looked real good.
And they made you look really good too.
Yeah, and the thing was it made them look good, made me look good and still get themselves over. I don’t remember who my
partner was, but I know that three out of the four of us had the same objective. The way I look at it, it’s like this, I knew I couldn’t go
in there at 22, 23 years of age, nobody there really knew who I was, and the fans didn’t know who I was and expect to be on top.
I look at it this way, if I’m on top and everybody across the board is making $50, they need to get somebody else on top. If we put you
on top, and I’m on the opener, and I’m making $100 in the opener, when I was making $50 on the main events, then that means
main event is making $300 or $400, $500. Then we need to have your ass on top.
Because to me, being with the territories, even in the independents today, I think so many of the guys make the mistake of thinking about
themselves, themselves, themselves. Most of them do it so they can say they were main event or something. And I’ve got news for
them, you got a first match, you got a last match. It’s a team effort to put butts in the seats.
If nobody wants to be there for the first match, then there’s not going to be anybody there to see the rest of them.
Exactly. The thing is if it takes me putting you over tonight to draw a house next week, then that’s what I’m going to do. I always do
what’s best for the house, not for the individual. Because to me, even though we’re wrestling each other, we’re a team. Next
week, the week after, I can erase everything from the people’s mind.
Wrestling fans, we have short memories.
Yeah, it’s human nature period. People’s memory are shorter now than 15, 20 years ago. That’s just a sociological thing.
So then you and Danny head up to Calgary. Were you teaming as the Nightmares up there?
No, we were Ken Wayne and Danny Davis and the name they hung on us was the Tennessee Studs.
Oh!
I know; I know. It wasn’t my idea. Wasn’t Danny’s idea. (Laughs) I didn’t care for it, but they were paying. They could have
called us Shit and Dumpling. I didn’t give a shit.
As long as you were getting paid.
As long as I was getting paid.
Up to this point you had been working heel the whole time.
In Oklahoma, I was a babyface.
Oh, you were a babyface in Oklahoma.
They had me miscast there buddy. (Laughs) I was a babyface when I first started until I went fulltime. That was for Jarrett. Then when we
did the thing with the Gilberts I was a heel. I went to Tulsa as a babyface, both times.
When you came back to Memphis, they had a couple other Nightmares, David Oswald and Ted Allen. Then they put you and Danny
together as the Nightmares, you two did a thing with the Rock 'n' Roll Express?
Right.
How was that working with Ricky and Robert?
It was great! Ricky and Robert, Danny and myself, we got in the ring, it was like a well-oiled machine as they would say. In fact, things
were so smooth. Those guys were flawless. They were dead on every night, all the time. Jerry Jarrett in fact asked us to go out there and
mess up because it looked too choreographed. That was the hardest thing I ever had to do, to go out and make an intentional mistake.
Now that’s hard. You strive so much to be as perfect as possible, you know what I mean. I guess we achieved that with Ricky and
Robert. It just looked too smooth is what Jerry Jarrett told us. It goes back to what I said about it being a team effort; the four of us knew
what it took to do our part to draw money.
We had a large crew. Memphis always kept a large crew. We knew our place; we knew our part. We never had any problems with each
other. The only problem we ever had with them was when Danny got injured. What it was, Robert back dropped him and fell, and Danny
fractured his back and was off for three months.
What did you do then?
I worked my ass off. (Laughs) I went through several different partners. We had a full body suit. We could use just about anybody. We
even had Bill Dundee under there. The last month, maybe six weeks before Danny came back, Ted Allen came back. There were a lot of
times I had a lot of guys at house shows who had no business being in the ring. I’d put them on the apron, and I’d do the whole
thing. They wouldn’t tag in until I had the guy grounded. Then come in and grab a hold.
Work an arm bar or something.
Yeah work that arm bar, and I’d work the referee, tag in and out. All I needed was somebody to make the sides even. Make it look like
we were a tag team. Danny came back on a Saturday, the Saturday before I blew my knee out. So when he came back he wasn’t 100
percent, and neither was I. That was as the Galaxians.
With Jim Cornette.
Right, right, right. That’s when Cornett first started. We had Cornett there too to help, but I basically didn’t have a partner. I went
through a bunch of different guys. Sometimes I did have good partners, but it was easy to cover when I didn’t. Usually when I didnâ
€™t have one was a spot show or something. It wasn’t like Memphis or Nashville. I usually had a good partner in those places. Back
to your original question about Ricky and Robert, this was a part of working with them too. I was glad to have them there, because they
helped cover for me and my partner. I have nothing put good things to say about them.
After that, Bob Armstrong gave you guys a call to come down to Dothan. How did he sell that to you? Did he tell you that you were
coming in to work with the RAT Patrol (Johnny Rich, Steve and Scott Armstrong)?
No. I didn’t even ask. I didn’t care. I had been trying to get into that territory for several years. It didn’t matter who was doing
the booking. I always talked to Ron Fuller. The way I looked at it, he was the head man; he was the one I wanted to talk to. I talked to him
three or four times, maybe even five trying to get in. It was the same story every time. We got a 14 man crew. We just changed some guys
out. Maybe later, maybe later. I’d wait a few months, call him back, but my timing was always off. I wanted to get in there really bad for
several years. Number one, it was a very short trip territory. Making great money, got to live in Pensacola on the beach. Short trips, beach,
I think that’s all you got to hear. That’s all you need to know. (Laughs)
Guys died trying to get in that territory. Bob called us on a Sunday. We were sitting at home. Me and Danny had a townhouse in Memphis.
He called, and I said, “Hey, it’s Bob Armstrong.� He asked us about coming in and so forth. We said, “Hell, yeah!�
Danny’s sitting across from me, already nodding as soon as he hears who it is; it’s like yeah, let’s go. We saw an
opportunity. We had been in and out of Memphis so much. It was an opportunity to go somewhere else, somewhere we wanted to be. He
may have told us who we were going to be working with, but I don’t recall. It didn’t matter. I didn’t care. He told what they was
doing down there, what was going on. Shit, when do you want us there? It was about that quick.
The thing that surprised us more than anything, our first day down, we went to Dothan on a Saturday, did TV that morning, the Dothan
show that night. We were off a week for their TV to catch up. The first night, they dropped the tag team belts. I remember thinking, damn
that’s strange. The first night into a territory, we got the belts. It just seemed strange to us. We kind felt like we fell into something
awesome. We didn’t have any problems. We didn’t really have any questions.
What was it like getting to work with some youngsters like that? Were Steve and Scott receptive to what you guys wanted to do?
Oh yeah. You couldn’t ask for better. I didn’t find out until some time later that Steve had just broke in. When you get into the ring
with a guy, after about the first lockup you know what they could do. Of course, the more times you’re in the ring with somebody, the
more you do with them. Some people you get in the ring with, you just click. Some guys, it takes a match or two to get your timing and
rhythm together. You got to learn each other. As far as I remember with Steve, Scott, any of them, we clicked right off the bat. There was
nothing I was afraid to do with them.
Bob did a good job breaking his sons into the business.
It was because of Brad we ended up being down there anyway, from being over working for Ole Anderson, Brad and Tim Horner. It was
Brad who told his daddy, if you can get these guys, get them. When it was time for a change, Bob wanted us. We were in Georgia working
for Ole in a deal with Jarrett.
That was the Chattanooga deal?
I went down there on the Stray Cat thing on one deal, and went back a couple of years later with Danny and had Jimmy Hart with us. We
were working that territory and the Memphis territory really. We worked like, Memphis on Monday night, Columbus on Tuesday I think it
was, TBS on Wednesday maybe sometimes on Thursday, be back up here on Friday. My God, we doing like 3,000 miles a week. We only
worked for Ole for about a month or six weeks. We weren’t there long.
When you guys did the Nightmares cage match, Steve got out of the cage, leaving Johnny in there, and beating the devil out of him.
How did you feel being in the ring? Did you thing there was going to be a riot?
Oh yeah, oh yeah. When we first came up with the idea, we got to talking, Danny and I. To really get the whole thing laid out, we came up
with the idea of getting out of the cage first. Actually, I think that Danny came up with that part of it. We got to thinking. We told the other
guys when they came to get in the ring to get Johnny out that when they finally got the cage open. We were taunting the guys with the keys,
when they tried to climb the cage; we hit their hands with the length of chains so they couldn’t get in. They even tried to bust the lock
off with a chair. We got the key from knocking the referee down. In fact, I had the key.
Finally, after so long, the referee shoulder blocked me and threw the key out to them. I told those guys, when you come in the ring, donâ
€™t come to Danny and me. We only got 10 seconds by the time we get out of the ring to the dressing room or we’re not going to
make it to the dressing room. We knew that ahead of time and pretty much planned for it. We got right back to where the ramp is that
goes back to the dressing room on our side, that’s when the people realized we were out of the ring. I had hoped to already be in the
dressing room, but we understood. We knew it. When Steve hit the floor, the people went absolutely crazy. It was great. It took them a
second to realize, uh oh, and then they got quite. They went from, if you had a one to 10, and they were on a nine in decibels, they
dropped to zero quick. They realized, uh oh, this is not good. We heard it, we felt it.
One of the safety things was we were in the cage. The hope was when the guys come in, if they came to us, they’d slow us down. We
couldn’t get to the dressing room. Plus it would put attention back on us; we needed to get it on Johnny. We understood that. We
knew that. That’s why I sent instructions, don’t anybody come to us for no reason. I said you all go to Johnny; the concern should
be on Johnny. Give us time to clear out. There’s no doubt in my mind, we would never have made it to the dressing room, if they
slowed us down two steps; we would have been screwed.
The thing is, we already gone an hour and 15 minutes in the cage. I told Ron Fuller we had to go over an hour.
He said, “An hour in the cage?�
I said, “Yeah, it’s the rules; we have to.�
He said, “I guess you’re right.�
We weren’t tired or anything. We were in shape. We understood that once the attention was off of us momentarily, we had time to get
to the dressing room. Without running, you run, it draws attention. We knew we couldn’t run, but we couldn’t lollygag either. We
were totally aware of the position we put ourselves in, which was good, it was a great feeling. It was part of your job in the ring to create
those emotions. Like that night, the police came to the dressing room, and said we need to bring your car in. It cannot stay out there, and
they brought my car into the building.
When we left, there was a bunch of people out back, and they blocked off the road where we went out the backside and blocked off the
parking lot on the other side so no one could follow us. They told us when we tell you to come, come, don’t stop. If someone gets in
your way, run over them. Don’t worry about it, they know to move. When I came out the door, I didn’t stop. When they realized I
wasn’t stopping, they got the hell out of the way. When we got to road out back there, they had two squad cars pull up; block off traffic,
another one went to the gate to block off the gate. And we were gone, Pensacola, bound. We weren’t stopping. (Laughs)
And that was our intention, to create that feeling, but you also have to know how to protect yourself. Part of protecting ourselves was telling
those guys not to come to us. If they had come to us, I’d have broken someone’s nose. I’d have hit someone hard. I knew
what danger we were putting ourselves in.
Did you leave in the infamous Continental Town Car? Did you take your masks off, because no one knew what you looked like?
We left our masks on until we got away from the building. Thing was, I had that big ass maroon Lincoln Town Car. Whether we had the
masks on or not they knew I had Tennessee plates, it was real easy to spot my car. A lot of places if you go, like the store, they could have
found our car and knew who we were. We looked too much alike walking down the street, you know what I mean. If we were out, during
the day, nobody ever paid attention. It wasn’t on their mind.
If they were looking for us after a match, in fact there were some girls one time, followed us from Mobile to Pensacola. We never saw
them; I never noticed them following us. They saw the subdivision I turned up into. They waited 20 minutes. I found this out later. They
waited 20 minutes, drove into the subdivision and found my car. They got the address, went to the phone book and looked until they
found that address. And they thought my real last name was *******. The phone was in my wife’s maiden name. I would never put it in
my name that would be stupidity. They said something about Ken *******. I said no, what the fuck you talking about, you know.
Danny knew this girl, in fact, ended up marrying her, who knew these girls, and that’s how I found out they went through the phone
book and found the name. It was because of my car. As far as walking amongst people away from the matches, I never had any
problems. In fact, in Pensacola, it was never any problem, not where I lived out in Gulf Breeze.
When it came time to unmask the Nightmares, did you and Danny have any apprehension about removing the masks?
No, it was my idea.
Were you just tired of removing the masks?
No, because we knew in a few months, well a couple of things. One, we set up a long term deal with Ron Fuller, and we were going to
end up cutting Danny’s hair, my hair. We were going to cut Danny’s girlfriend’s hair and cut my wife’s hair. Danny’s
girlfriend, they split up before we got to their part, and my wife was pregnant, when it came time to cut her hair.
Ron wouldn’t do it. He said, “man if she were to have a miscarriage, it would be the wrong kind of heat.�
I said, “no man, do it. She’ll be alright with it.�
Even more long term, we knew after we did the hair thing, we’d be gone for awhile and coming back as baby faces. We were that far
ahead of ourselves, like a year and a half ahead. The only way we could get to the hair was to lose the masks, and we timed the masks
for Thanksgiving. That whole week, we had to turn them away.
The reaction you guys received when you came back to Continental as The Tennessee Stud’s and The Bullet’s mystery
partners against Kevin Sullivan and the New Guinea Headhunters was unbelievable. That must have been strange for you guys to get
cheered like that after being heels in the territory for so long.
It was a strange feeling. One, I’m not a baby face (Laughs). Then I saw the guys we had to work. God, Tio and Tapu, these guys are
huge. What am I going to do with these big sumbitches? But, the reaction the fans gave us, to me was very surprising, because we left
as heels, and just came back. And really by the door we came out of determined if we were heels or baby faces. And the reaction we got
when we came out surprised me.
I didn’t know how the people would react. I was glad they did. It made it a lot easier for us. At first, I couldn’t believe the reaction
we got; I wasn’t expecting it. Then considering all the big ass guys we had to wrestle. Really for that early part when we came back in
were giants. Basically, what Ron was trying to do was make giant killers out of us.
He did a real good job.
Yeah, he did a helluva job. I’m normally against shit like that, you know, but in this case none of this was my idea or anything. I just
did what the man asked me to do. But Danny and I always had a certain logic to what we were doing. I would never think about taking
down a big guy like I would somebody my size or close to it. We did a lot of doubling teaming and things. But to answer your question, I
was very surprised.
That really was a tremendous reaction, and Gordon [Solie] really helped to put you guys over too as babyfaces. You say you’re
not a babyface, but you cut a heck of a babyface promo.
Thank you. Well the thing too is that you got to realize, is that at some point along the line, because I never liked working babyface, to this
day, I still don’t like it, but because it’s a part of the business, somewhere along the line I decided I got to learn to do it. I knew
what it took. There are things you got to do as a babyface that’s just not in my heart. When I do the interviews, I have to believe it
myself. From that standpoint it is in my heart, but it’s just not my personality. Certain things you got to do, what was it, kiss hands and
shake babies?
I like to play with kids. I think they’re funnier than shit. Hell they’re brain dead until they’re about 20 years old, you know.
(Laughs) But they’re funny. Stuff like that I enjoyed a lot, but I finally decided look I just got to do this. The way I looked at it was it’s
a part of the business. The man wants me to do this; I need to know how to do it.
For me, for a long time, I looked at a babyface as the reverse of a heel. You can do that move wise, but the hard part is changing the
personality that you exuded or project. When I’m in the ring, it’s just natural for me to have a heel air about me. For me, it wasnâ
€™t hard, but awkward to change that to a baby face presence or projection. That’s the hard part of baby facing, not the moves, but
the way you present yourself. It’s not really what’s in my heart.
A lot of people rave about the feud you had with Robert Fuller and Jimmy Golden. Working with those two, what was that like?
Well, Jimmy more than Robert to me was a hoot. I’ve known Jimmy since I was seven, eight years old. My dad and I lived with Jimmy
and his dad in Louisiana. Then we were in Bill Golden’s deal in Montgomery. For me it was a lot of. Robert was ok. He put all the
work off on Jimmy. Made Jimmy mad, but it didn’t bother me a bit. Jimmy whined about it, but it was a lot of fun. Two guys I’ve
known basically all my life. I had known Robert and Jimmy since they were kids too.
That could have been part of Robert’s personality as a heel. Really he was still learning how to be a heel, up to about late 85,
early 86; he had been a career babyface.
Right.
He had only been working heel for about two years when you guys did your deal, so he did the cowardly heel type personality. So,
putting everything on Jimmy kind of makes sense.
Yeah. I found out too I couldn’t dropkick him.
Couldn’t dropkick him? Was he too tall?
No, no, no. I could get up. The problem was he flails his arms. I went to dropkick him one night and I had to jump really hard to dropkick
him and Jimmy because they are so tall. Cause I could do a regular dropkick like I’d do on most guys, and I’d hit them in the
belly. (Laughs) I had to jump real high to get my feet in there chest. I’d try to hit them in their face, but at least in the chest. Robert was
flailing his arms one night. I jumped; man I jumped hard. As I was going up, his arms caught my feet on the way up, and it likes
nosedives your feet, it can hurt you. I was like, ok, I won’t dropkick him no more. (Laughs) It was like a fan, like trying to dropkick a fan.
Trying to get through those arms, you know. That was the way he works. I just said, well, if he can’t get his arms out the way, then I
won’t dropkick him. I always dropkicked Jimmy instead. (Laughs) I made sure I threw no dropkicks Robert’s way.
It don’t take me long to figure things out. It was a lot of fun, mainly because I knew the guys virtually my whole life. They’re both a
little older than I am, so their my memories of me probably go back further than mine do of them. Of course, I knew their daddies. It was
like old home week for me. Even when I went down there it was that way. Jimmy and Robert and I and Danny, we all rode together,
especially Jimmy.
In fact, when I first got there, the first week or so, I stayed with Jimmy. In fact, he asked me to live there. He had built an extra room on to
his house for his dad, of course his dad died while he was building the house. I told Danny, I’d get place with him, and I did for a
short while. My wife came; well we got married then and bought a house a couple blocks away from Danny. Looking back, I kind of wish Iâ
€™d stayed with Jimmy. He put in a pool, and a hot tub. Shit it was nice.
Making a lot of money in that area.
Yes, sir. Everyone was making money, and that was a good thing man. And you weren’t spending any of it. You were home almost
every night. I went from 3,000 miles a week to a thousand. What a difference that was.
Your longest trip was up to Knoxville once Ron had opened up that end.
At first we weren’t even going up there. We were just going to Birmingham. We were doing 280 to Birmingham and 280 back. That
was our long trip of the week. Then of course when the Knoxville thing happened, we’d generally go up there and stay two days.
Pretty much after your feud with Robert and Jimmy concluded some things started to change in Continental. I believe David Woods
ended up with the company, and Rip Tyler began running in Pensacola with the World Organization of Wrestling (W.O.W). I
remember Continental wasn’t coming to Pensacola any more, and I was going down to the Bayfront and watching WOW. So
how did he pull out of Pensacola?
I think what happened was they lost their TV in Mobile, which you know they also had TV in Pensacola. The Mobile TV did 10 times more
than Pensacola because of the coverage. When they lost TV we just wouldn’t draw. This was before David Woods. I know Ron lost
the TV, not lost it, actually he had a problem with them and said screw you, I ain’t paying you no more. They’d pre-empt us, move
us around, which was really a violation of the contract he had with them.
So Ron just pulled his TV then?
Yeah. Well that wasn’t the deal he had. With the TV being bounced like that, you couldn’t really expect to draw. So we got to where
we couldn’t really draw in Mobile, and proportionately, Pensacola fell off. Well, with the moves and everything expanding North up to
Knoxville, it just opened up dates to run up that way.
Also, as it worked out too with Ron selling the company, he sold half the company, and then half again. It gave him the Northern half to
keep. David Woods from my understanding didn’t want to buy the whole thing. He ended up buying the whole thing in two different
blocks, you know what I mean.
Ron made a ton of money off that.
Yes he did. When I finished up, the thing where Danny and I split up, and I was back in Pensacola, it was still Continental. I was gone
already when David Woods bought the company.
So my time frame was a little bit off. So you ended up going to work for Rip Tyler in WOW. It started catching on, what happened with
that? I guess his money man fell through, right?
Well, I left before whatever happened with the money man happened. Actually, what had happened was, we shot a little video piece up in
Knoxville when I was leaving. At the end of it I told Danny I was going back to Pensacola. Rip just thought that was great.
Now there’s another one I’ve known all my life was Rip and Gino Sanazaro. I had known these guys for ages. Jerry Stubbs
comes by my house. Hey man, Rip wants to talk to you. I said ok, so I went by the office to talk to him. Made a money deal and said ok.
Well two weeks later, he called me to come to the office to talk to him. I said ok, what’s up now? I went in, and he asked me to start
doing the booking. I said ok. Get the facts and figures right, what you want me to do, and I started doing the booking. And looking back on
it, man what a crew I had. I had Stubbs, Kokina, Bob Holly, Percy Prin … not Percy Pringle …
Marcel.
God, he was a good hand. He could work. We had a helluva crew there. I didn’t realize what a good crew we had. The final thing for
me was Rip was bad about booking shows and wanting to cancel them, and it was causing a bit of a moral problem amongst the boys.
I could imagine that.
Yeah, and I saw it as a problem. They had a show coming up, two shows. One was in Clarksdale, Mississippi, and the other one was
around there, maybe around Tupelo. Any how they were about 500 damn miles away from Pensacola. I told them you’re crazy. I said
why run the boys way up there? It ain’t going to draw guy. We’ve only had TV a couple of weeks up there. It’s not going to
draw; it’s going to piss the boys off even more. At best they’re going to break even on the shot. I said it’s just stupidity. We
have a moral problem, and this is just going to make it worse. When I first found this out, a lot of things were happening at one time. The
money man from Japan came in, and Rip didn’t want for anybody talking to the man. By this time we switched over to the armory in
Pensacola.
I remember going to quite a few shows over there too.
Yeah! That’s a good building for wrestling. We were back in the locker room; well it’s not really a locker room, just a bunch of
offices. Well they had Saito; I think that’s what it was. He him back in one of the offices. He did want anyone to talk to him or have
anything to do with him. Well, I thought it was the shits.
Here I am the booker, and I can’t talk to him. What kind of bullshit is that? Something doesn’t smell right to me. Well, I just
busted in the room and introduced myself. Damn it I want to meet the man. I wanted to know who he was and meet him. That got a little
heat between Rip and me, which I didn’t really give a shit at this point. Cause I already had in my mind I was getting ready to quit
anyway. That wasn’t that big of a deal.
I knew something was up, something didn’t smell right. There were all kinds of little things that went on. I used to have to go to the
office just about everyday, for nothing really, you know. Just talk about nothing. I thought it was the shits, and every time we got something
to happen; Rip would want to change this, change that. To me it wasn’t worth my time. When the day come up to have to go to
Clarksdale, MS, roughly 400 miles from Pensacola, just about 90 miles from Memphis. Figure 400 miles the guys would be going for
nothing. I just went man it’s just not worth it. I believe in things running smoothly. If things are running smoothly, you make better
money.
The bottom line is we’re in the business to make money. The whole thing happened kind of quick. I wasn't expecting to work at all. I
planned on being off. I had a 14 year old sister who had come to Pensacola to live with me. I put her in school in Gulf Breeze. So it kind of
worked out good cause I had this extra expense, and I was making money too. I wasn’t working much. We taped TV every two weeks,
and we may have run one or two shows during the week if they weren’t canceled, which that pissed me a lot when they canceled
shows because that didn’t make a lot of sense to me.
There were a lot of things going on with that whole W.O.W. I thought it was shady. Here I was trying to get shit done. I couldn’t get
things done. They were canceling shows. They were doing things I thought that seemed like to keep shit from drawing, and I thought it
sucked. Here’s my name as the booker, but it’s not my fault it didn’t draw. There were other reasons for it. It just got to be a
headache I didn’t need.
Was this your first shot at being the booker?
No, not really. All that from the Nightmare cage match on that was my booking, mine and Danny, well mostly mine, but Danny’s too.
Pretty much since California I booked all my own stuff.
So that’s how you know when you made it in the business, right?
I guess. (Laughs) I don’t know. I think living in a big mansion tells you that too. (Laughs) I think I’ve just been real lucky. A good at
least 80 percent, 90 percent, since about 82, I’ve pretty much booked my own stuff. They come up and ask me, or they’ll throw an
idea at me. They may have an idea, and I’ll sit down and flush it out and say I like this and that: boom, boom, boom. Let’s go
handle it. I’d also give other guys ideas.
Like Ron Fuller and I, which I wasn’t the booker or assistant booker or anything like that, I just rode and talked to him a lot. From
Birmingham to Pensacola we’d come up with a lot of ideas. It wasn’t always just me by myself. Even with Lawler, he was the
booker, but I still had say so. It wasn’t just straight out do this. I’ve been real lucky with that. But as far as handling everything
myself, doing all the booking that was my first time.
So after this deal with W.O.W. was done, you went back to Continental?
No, actually I think I came back to Memphis, and was working up here for a little while. Lawler was doing the booking. Somewhere in
there I ended up getting the US Jr. belt. What it was, Robert was booking at this time, David Woods. After I finished with W.O.W, I stayed at
home. Somehow or another I don’t know how I ended up in Memphis. I still had my home in Florida, but I was up here working. I
ended up with the US Jr. belt. The idea was... it was Robert’s idea.
Jimmy Golden kept calling me, but we kept missing each other. After about a week, two weeks, we finally got in touch with each other.
They wanted me to have that belt, and I could use it any place I wanted to, as long it wasn’t in opposition against them. They wanted
me to come in like once a month, or every two weeks for TV, come in once a month and work the territory for like a week, hit all their
towns, as US. Jr. champion. And the idea was try to get pretty much, what’s now called cruiserweights, type deal happening. There
were a lot of smaller guys out there that nothing was being done with. Robert kind of looked at it like hell let Kenny go do it. If anyone can
do it, he can kind of what he was thinking. Sure, no problem with that.
I talked to Lawler that week before I ever went down there. I was in the car with him. We were in the car together. We used to make trips
together, since we both lived in Memphis. I told him the deal. He said hell yeah we’ll use that sumbitch. Bring it on. I was working
here and down there for a short period. Somehow or another I’m thinking I got to Montgomery one day to do TV, and Robert was gone
and Eddie [Gilbert] was booking. I’m thinking that’s the way it happened.
Eddie sat down with me that day, and asked me to go fulltime with him. I was working down there; I was working here, and other little
organizations too trying to do something with that belt. When I got to TV that day, hell I didn’t know Robert was gone. When I showed
up, here’s Eddie, which was good. That was a good thing (Laughs) Usually, when you get there, and the same guy’s not there,
you go oh no, but it worked out really good for us.
So, that’s when you and Danny got to shoot your angle, one of the easily top 10, if not top 5 turns of all time.
Thank you.
People still talk about it still today, the reunion, everything.
Eddie’s the one who presented that to me about the splitting. I said fuck yes. That would be great. Who else do I know better than
Danny, as far as having matches and what we’re going to do? Eddie and I pretty much both booked that out. It wasn’t all him,
wasn’t all me. Actually, Danny didn’t throw in too many ideas. He was just kind of like, let’s do it.
Danny trusted me, and he trusted Eddie. Danny trusted me with his life, and we had the same ideas in mind. We knew what it takes to
draw money. One of the things I told Eddie was I don’t mind doing it, but I want to do it right. Eddie said no problem. (Laughs) Anyway
you want to do it. So I sat down, milled around in my head for awhile. Talked to Danny. Eddie and I used to ride together a lot too, always
rode in the backseat. Usually after the matches, we’d kick around all kinds of ideas. Some of your best ideas come up on a trip. I told
him what my idea was, and we went with it. Eddie allowed me the freedom to do it however I wanted.
And made some money off of it.
Yes, oh yeah. That was the thing man. That was the whole idea, to make money. What was so great about having Danny is Danny knew
what it took to draw money. If I’m beating the shit out of him and leaving him laying, a lot of the baby faces they got those egos. Oh,
you’re making me look like shit. No we’re not. Danny understood all that, so it made it a freaking breeze, man. Danny didn’t
have the ego problem that a lot of guys had. Like wearing the dress that time in Ozark, that was Eddie’s idea. I think he just wanted to
see me in a dress. (Laughs) When Eddie came up with ideas like that, he’d give you the basic idea.
I was real pleased with having the opportunity to do that. I’d like to have killed Danny before we ever had our first match. I beat him to
death. I split his head open in two places with one shot. Cut him open in the front and the side of his head. I hit him with the belt. The big
plate busted him in the front, and the side plate slapped him in the side of the head. When I had the dress on, I dropped a leg on him
split both of his lips. (Laughs) I said damn, we got to have a match, I’m killing you man. Which he really didn’t mind, it’s a
part of it. Those things happen.
I hadn’t worked against Danny since I first started in 1979. We spent all that time together. Hell, I knew everything he could do; he
knew everything I could do. It made it so easy. We knew each other’s capabilities and limitations.
I know what I was supposed to ask you. You were there when it went from Southeastern to Continental. We were wondering if that
was Ron’s way of being national, without being national if you catch my meaning.
Well, he was working on a deal with CBS. When you use the name Southeastern that puts you in the Southeastern United States.
Continental can be all the United States, Canada and Mexico. On a larger base appeal, Southeastern is not going to get over in the
Pacific Northwest, Arizona or Tulsa. I don’t know this for a fact, but being around him at the time. He and I talked about switching over
to taping at Boutwell. One of his concerns was hurting the gates in Birmingham. We talked about that, about six or eight weeks later. I
asked him was it hurting, at the time it wasn’t.
By the time David Woods took over it did. The tapings took forfuckingever. There was a lot of downtime. Everything you seen at the
matches you could go home and see it on TV. Ron wasn’t quite doing it that way. Doing it the way he did it was a balance. You had to
have a good show, but you couldn’t give them everything. Sure you could give them everything, but what are they going to come to
see? It’s not like WWE, on their Monday night RAW they give them everything, cause that’s the show. They don’t have to
come back to that town next week.
There’s a fine balance there that Ron had to juggle. I think he did a helluva job. Ron’s one of the smartest men I’ve ever met
in this business, he and Jerry Jarrett. I know they brought in some lights, because CBS said our lighting was poor. So, Ron rented some
big ass lights. Had them bring them in, set them up. We did some tapings that way, CBS still didn’t like it. I think Ron just said the
hell with it. I think at that time, the deal was coming up with David Woods. Well, maybe it wasn’t. It may have been in the works, but it
was still seven, eight, ten months off. I think that deal took a long time. I know Ron sold it to some people in Georgia, an investment
company. That deal didn’t last long. It was all screwed up. I already left by then. It wasn’t that he was trying to look national
without going national. He was going to go national!
That’s why the CBS deal. That would have been a network show, which would have taken it national. It was when that deal didn’t
quite pan out that he went looking for David Woods. It was either let’s do this, or I’m getting out. Ron and I talked about all kinds
of stuff. One of the things was about being in a territory after about ten or twelve years, with the same bookers, you cycle them. The people
get used to that routine.
You had the same thing in Memphis. You’d have Jerry Jarrett book for awhile, then Lawler would come in, it would come up. It’d
go down a little bit, then Bill Dundee would start booking, it would come up. When it went down a little bit, Jerry Jarrett would come back
in. By the time you’ve done that three or four cycles, the people are used to changes, it’s not new anymore. A new booker would
come in, a different style, all right. After you seen that style twice, seen the rotation, the people didn’t realize that’s what it was, but
that is in reality what it was.
I think he could see that happening down there. He had a broader vision what was going on with Vince, and he knew he could sell it, get
out from under it, and be done with it, have money in the bank, go out and build hockey teams, if he couldn’t do the national deal.
Well, the national deal didn’t happen, well let’s sell this son of a bitch. To me, that’s smart business.
Like I say, I think he’s one of the smartest guys I ever met in the business, in a lot of ways. I could sit here and tell you stories forever
about Ron and things I saw. Little things that he would say or do that maybe at the moment didn’t make a lot of sense to me, but after
putting a little thought to it, saw it, able to see what he was doing, it all made sense. Ron was a very smart sumbitch.
So, do you think if the territory stayed in Fuller’s hands, it would have lasted longer than it did?
Oh, there’s no doubt in my mind, none whatsoever. Ron got tired of not having enough help. He had Bob Armstrong, that’s it, in
the company. Jimmy would do anything you’d tell him to do. Robert, it was like pulling teeth to get him to do anything. If he’d have
more help, he would have stayed in it.
*** Editor’s Note: Unfortunately, the conclusion of this interview has been lost.
us a little bit about the influence your dad (Buddy Wayne) had on your career?
Well, let’s see I guess the best way to put it was I been wrestling for about five years before I realized I didn’t have a shot at doing
anything else. Basically I looked at it
You got your start if I remember correctly in Billy Golden’s Tri-State Promotion in Montgomery right?
No, no, no. I first started with Jerry Jarrett up in Springfield, KY. The thing with Billy Golden, that was my dad and Jimmy Golden down
there. I wasn’t but about 14 or 15. I ring announce and stuff like that, but I had already been doing that stuff.
Kind of like how your son Eric was refereeing this last Continental reunion show right?
Right. He referees just about every show I go to now.
That’s how a lot of guys got started in the business.
Right. I did the same thing, even when I was little, six or seven years old I would help with tickets, anything. When I was about eight or
nine, I would sell pictures. In fact, my dad, what he did was he bought the first 100 pictures, back then they were black and white 8X10s. Iâ
€™d sell them for $1.00 a piece. Well, generally I’d sell them all in one night. I would give him his $25 back, cleared me $75. I would
work the concession stands, set up the chairs.
Finally, when I got a little older, I started refereeing. Of course, once I got my drivers license, I started hauling the ring by myself. I think it
definitely gives a guy more appreciation for the business to come up like that.
You definitely grew up in this business. You were saying you started out working with Jerry Jarrett in Kentucky. Do you have any
memories of working out there? Was that before he took over (Nick) Gulas’ promotion?
He had already split from Gulas. This was in 1979. Actually, Robert Fuller was the booker. Robert had a problem with guys staying. Theyâ
€™d all leave. I was hauling the ring, somebody didn’t show up. It took me for ever to convince them to let me wrestle. The hardest
thing I ever had was getting my first match. They all knew me. The thing was I was around them all the time. A lot of them, even with
Jimmy Golden, even though I was 20 years old or so, they still looked at me as that kid from before. It’s kind of like if you know
somebody when they’re eight, nine, 10 years old, and then when they’re 25 years old, in your mind you still see that 10 year old.
I think that was kind of a thing there too you know. I had tights, boots, and I was ready to go. I had been lifting weights for a couple of
years; I was ready, you know. About three and half, four months later, Fuller left, Robert that is. Most of the crew went with him, what was
left of his crew. That’s when we did the thing with Tommy and Eddie Gilbert. That’s really how I got my start.
You and Eddie have a history in the business, going back all the way to 1979, Continental all the way to Puerto Rico.
We were also in WCW. He let me privy to a lot of information I probably wasn’t supposed to have. I was able to see a lot of the things
going on that a lot of the guys didn’t notice. A lot of it was observation, but conversations with Eddie too. We always talked. That was
the thing about the business. There were times in other places, he’d want me to come in, but the timing wasn’t right or whatever.
As it turned out, we had a long history that should have been a lot longer.
Yeah, and it’s a shame because Eddie was one of my favorites too. Now after you had worked out there with Jarrett in Kentucky,
how much longer until you had went out to California. That’s where you started to really put it all together, right?
Right. I left here. I did a couple little things around here. I did the Jarrett thing. Of course, that covers Kentucky, Mississippi, Arkansas,
Alabama, Missouri, and Louisiana. We even went up to Ohio once. Then I left and went to work over in Tulsa for Leroy McGuirk. I injured
my back about three months in.
I ended up having to take off; I was hurting. I kept wrestling for three weeks. I finally realized that I was hurt too bad. I came back to
Memphis, healed up, and worked for them again, for a little while, not long. Went back to Tulsa, but things were kind of falling a part out
there. All this happened within about two years.
So all this happened between 79 and 81?
Right.
Then you went out to California to work for Mike LeBell?
Yeah, LeBell. Tom Renesto was the booker. I got out there, and that’s when things really started to change. That’s where it all fell
together. That’s where I learned how to do an interview. I got that from Gene LeBell.
From Gene?
Yeah, Gene was the one who smartened me up to how to do an interview.
Jody Hamilton said it was Tom Renesto that taught him how to do an interview, and I thought maybe it would be Tom, but Gene
LeBell, that kind of surprises me.
Well, I think Tom helped; I know he did, you know. But the one that pushed it over the edge and made it crystal clear to me was Gene
LeBell. I remember where it was. We were in the process of changing buildings; in fact, we already changed buildings from the Olympic
over to the Sports Arena. Out there it took all day to do interviews. I don’t know why it took so long. You figured in Hollywood it would
go pretty quick, but it takes forever to make a movie too. It’s not like TV here [Memphis] or New York where it’s fast. Out there it
was just slow, and when we’d take a break, I’d walk across the parking lot from the Coliseum where they played football. I used
to go over there and walk on the field on our break.
One of those things in my mind that was real nostalgic. I could be in there by myself. I could go out on the field, you know. He saw me go
out there one day and said, “wait up Kenny.� We walked right out there on the football field talking, and he started telling me things
about how to let loose, the wilder you could be, voice inflection. In my mind it was like it was yesterday. Then I put it all together. Maybe he
just had the right words at the time. He put it all together for me. I felt like going back to that day, I started cutting better interviews right
then. Gene, I don’t know if he remembers me or not, but that was him that put all that together for me. Made me understand, see
clearly.
I remember you being in Continental. You’d do such amazing things in the ring, flying through the ropes, all the twists and turns.
There were a lot of luchadores in California. Is that where you picked that style up?
Yeah, I picked a lot of that up out there. Actually, I started to pick a little up here and in Tulsa. Didn’t use much of it. One of the guys I
was getting it from was Hector Guerrero. I was here in Tennessee with Hector; I was in Tulsa with Hector. Later I was in California with
Hector. I got a lot of things from him. Some of it I got up in Canada. Had a lot of Japanese and English boys. Well, the English style is a
little different. They had Japanese guys coming in doing the luchadore stuff too. That’s where basically I got a lot of it too. I watched a
lot of tape of what Tiger Mask was doing.
Tiger Mask was something else.
Awesome. I got a tape recently, a best of Tiger Mask. I was watching, had things I forgotten about. I watched a lot of tapes, still watch a lot
of tapes.
Speaking of Tiger Mask, I was reading that you said that Buck Robley booked you in Kansas City as Tiger Mask II, and you didn’t
really want to do that gimmick.
Right. I didn’t mind doing the gimmick. I didn’t like being called Tiger Mask. He was booking me straight as Tiger Mask, trying to
pass me off as Sayama. I went man, wait a minute. One, I thought it was an insult to Tiger Mask. Two, buddy there’s not but one Tiger
Mask.
Exactly.
What if somebody from one of the magazines comes up and wants to do an interview with me? I told Buck if there’s an interview, I
don’t know what to tell them. It’s obvious I’m not Sayama. Cause I had been doing some things in Georgia as the Stray Cat,
which it worked out at that time, because the “Stray Cat� song was popular.
It was kind of a hit, you know, and I liked it because it was still the same Tiger Mask gimmick, except out there [Georgia] they had the
song and my interviews would be that jive stuff, like Troy Graham used to do. I had some difficulty doing them and all that stuff, which I
had to sit with Jimmy Cornett for hours to learn the rhythms. He had to help me with the words; he knew them all. But I didn’t like
being called Tiger Mask. I thought the Stray Cat thing was good enough, and there was a record on the radio to use as intro music.
After California, I believe you went up to Calgary.
Nope, I went back to Memphis, and that’s where me and Danny first got together.
You did a lot of moving around when you first started in the business. Was that so you could learn as much as you could?
Well, my first thought when I first got started was to go into as much of the territories as I possibly could, meet the different guys and to
learn the different styles. Everywhere I wrestled was a little different. The way you wrestled in Tulsa, you wrestled differently in Los
Angeles; you wrestled differently in, say, Dothan. You know different styles. So the thing that happened when I got back here [Memphis],
Danny and I got together as the Nightmare and Speed. I forget how long, maybe six, seven, eight months. Then Stu Hart called us to
come up to Calgary, which was like three or four months in advance. Yeah, we’ll go. Like I say, I wanted to meet Stu Hart.
In the meantime, Danny wanted to take some time off to spend with his family before we went up there. So for six weeks I went to San
Antonio to work for the Blanchard’s, because I didn’t want to be off for like two months. I wanted to work. I took two weeks off and
then went in. In fact, Buck Robley, who was doing the booking for San Antonio at the time, I was there a month and gave my two weeks
notice. He got offended. He was getting ready to shoot an angle with me. I had to leave. I gave the man [Hart] my word that I’m
coming up to Calgary. I took two weeks off and went up there.
I have a tape of you working in San Antonio.
Really?
Yeah. It’s only one match. It was a tag match. Of course, the announcer put you over as having come right in from California. You
teamed with a Mexican wrestler, who was an enhancement talent. It still gave you a chance to get over, working against Ken Lucas
and Ricky Morton. Of course, you know your partner took the fall. How did you feel coming into the company having to team with a
job guy, no disrespect that was his role with the company, when you’re trying to get yourself over?
That didn’t bother me, for a couple reasons. One, I was only going to be there for six weeks. Now if I went in with long term
expectations, it may have bothered me, but the first week or two, it generally doesn’t bother me on something like that. Because I
understand sometimes, although Buck Robley knew what I could or couldn’t do and so forth, at the time a lot of kids saw the lights.
So really it didn’t bother me with that knowledge in my mind. But I also know the company; they already have things in place that they
got to do before they can do anything with a new guy.
Having been around the business, especially looking back on it, having done the booking in several places I understand totally. I didnâ
€™t take it as a slight or anything. It’s business. They needed to get those guys over and was able to do it without hurting me. It didnâ
€™t do anything for me, didn’t hurt me; didn’t helped me, you know what I mean. Without seeing the match, I’m guessing
that Ricky and Ken looked real good.
And they made you look really good too.
Yeah, and the thing was it made them look good, made me look good and still get themselves over. I don’t remember who my
partner was, but I know that three out of the four of us had the same objective. The way I look at it, it’s like this, I knew I couldn’t go
in there at 22, 23 years of age, nobody there really knew who I was, and the fans didn’t know who I was and expect to be on top.
I look at it this way, if I’m on top and everybody across the board is making $50, they need to get somebody else on top. If we put you
on top, and I’m on the opener, and I’m making $100 in the opener, when I was making $50 on the main events, then that means
main event is making $300 or $400, $500. Then we need to have your ass on top.
Because to me, being with the territories, even in the independents today, I think so many of the guys make the mistake of thinking about
themselves, themselves, themselves. Most of them do it so they can say they were main event or something. And I’ve got news for
them, you got a first match, you got a last match. It’s a team effort to put butts in the seats.
If nobody wants to be there for the first match, then there’s not going to be anybody there to see the rest of them.
Exactly. The thing is if it takes me putting you over tonight to draw a house next week, then that’s what I’m going to do. I always do
what’s best for the house, not for the individual. Because to me, even though we’re wrestling each other, we’re a team. Next
week, the week after, I can erase everything from the people’s mind.
Wrestling fans, we have short memories.
Yeah, it’s human nature period. People’s memory are shorter now than 15, 20 years ago. That’s just a sociological thing.
So then you and Danny head up to Calgary. Were you teaming as the Nightmares up there?
No, we were Ken Wayne and Danny Davis and the name they hung on us was the Tennessee Studs.
Oh!
I know; I know. It wasn’t my idea. Wasn’t Danny’s idea. (Laughs) I didn’t care for it, but they were paying. They could have
called us Shit and Dumpling. I didn’t give a shit.
As long as you were getting paid.
As long as I was getting paid.
Up to this point you had been working heel the whole time.
In Oklahoma, I was a babyface.
Oh, you were a babyface in Oklahoma.
They had me miscast there buddy. (Laughs) I was a babyface when I first started until I went fulltime. That was for Jarrett. Then when we
did the thing with the Gilberts I was a heel. I went to Tulsa as a babyface, both times.
When you came back to Memphis, they had a couple other Nightmares, David Oswald and Ted Allen. Then they put you and Danny
together as the Nightmares, you two did a thing with the Rock 'n' Roll Express?
Right.
How was that working with Ricky and Robert?
It was great! Ricky and Robert, Danny and myself, we got in the ring, it was like a well-oiled machine as they would say. In fact, things
were so smooth. Those guys were flawless. They were dead on every night, all the time. Jerry Jarrett in fact asked us to go out there and
mess up because it looked too choreographed. That was the hardest thing I ever had to do, to go out and make an intentional mistake.
Now that’s hard. You strive so much to be as perfect as possible, you know what I mean. I guess we achieved that with Ricky and
Robert. It just looked too smooth is what Jerry Jarrett told us. It goes back to what I said about it being a team effort; the four of us knew
what it took to do our part to draw money.
We had a large crew. Memphis always kept a large crew. We knew our place; we knew our part. We never had any problems with each
other. The only problem we ever had with them was when Danny got injured. What it was, Robert back dropped him and fell, and Danny
fractured his back and was off for three months.
What did you do then?
I worked my ass off. (Laughs) I went through several different partners. We had a full body suit. We could use just about anybody. We
even had Bill Dundee under there. The last month, maybe six weeks before Danny came back, Ted Allen came back. There were a lot of
times I had a lot of guys at house shows who had no business being in the ring. I’d put them on the apron, and I’d do the whole
thing. They wouldn’t tag in until I had the guy grounded. Then come in and grab a hold.
Work an arm bar or something.
Yeah work that arm bar, and I’d work the referee, tag in and out. All I needed was somebody to make the sides even. Make it look like
we were a tag team. Danny came back on a Saturday, the Saturday before I blew my knee out. So when he came back he wasn’t 100
percent, and neither was I. That was as the Galaxians.
With Jim Cornette.
Right, right, right. That’s when Cornett first started. We had Cornett there too to help, but I basically didn’t have a partner. I went
through a bunch of different guys. Sometimes I did have good partners, but it was easy to cover when I didn’t. Usually when I didnâ
€™t have one was a spot show or something. It wasn’t like Memphis or Nashville. I usually had a good partner in those places. Back
to your original question about Ricky and Robert, this was a part of working with them too. I was glad to have them there, because they
helped cover for me and my partner. I have nothing put good things to say about them.
After that, Bob Armstrong gave you guys a call to come down to Dothan. How did he sell that to you? Did he tell you that you were
coming in to work with the RAT Patrol (Johnny Rich, Steve and Scott Armstrong)?
No. I didn’t even ask. I didn’t care. I had been trying to get into that territory for several years. It didn’t matter who was doing
the booking. I always talked to Ron Fuller. The way I looked at it, he was the head man; he was the one I wanted to talk to. I talked to him
three or four times, maybe even five trying to get in. It was the same story every time. We got a 14 man crew. We just changed some guys
out. Maybe later, maybe later. I’d wait a few months, call him back, but my timing was always off. I wanted to get in there really bad for
several years. Number one, it was a very short trip territory. Making great money, got to live in Pensacola on the beach. Short trips, beach,
I think that’s all you got to hear. That’s all you need to know. (Laughs)
Guys died trying to get in that territory. Bob called us on a Sunday. We were sitting at home. Me and Danny had a townhouse in Memphis.
He called, and I said, “Hey, it’s Bob Armstrong.� He asked us about coming in and so forth. We said, “Hell, yeah!�
Danny’s sitting across from me, already nodding as soon as he hears who it is; it’s like yeah, let’s go. We saw an
opportunity. We had been in and out of Memphis so much. It was an opportunity to go somewhere else, somewhere we wanted to be. He
may have told us who we were going to be working with, but I don’t recall. It didn’t matter. I didn’t care. He told what they was
doing down there, what was going on. Shit, when do you want us there? It was about that quick.
The thing that surprised us more than anything, our first day down, we went to Dothan on a Saturday, did TV that morning, the Dothan
show that night. We were off a week for their TV to catch up. The first night, they dropped the tag team belts. I remember thinking, damn
that’s strange. The first night into a territory, we got the belts. It just seemed strange to us. We kind felt like we fell into something
awesome. We didn’t have any problems. We didn’t really have any questions.
What was it like getting to work with some youngsters like that? Were Steve and Scott receptive to what you guys wanted to do?
Oh yeah. You couldn’t ask for better. I didn’t find out until some time later that Steve had just broke in. When you get into the ring
with a guy, after about the first lockup you know what they could do. Of course, the more times you’re in the ring with somebody, the
more you do with them. Some people you get in the ring with, you just click. Some guys, it takes a match or two to get your timing and
rhythm together. You got to learn each other. As far as I remember with Steve, Scott, any of them, we clicked right off the bat. There was
nothing I was afraid to do with them.
Bob did a good job breaking his sons into the business.
It was because of Brad we ended up being down there anyway, from being over working for Ole Anderson, Brad and Tim Horner. It was
Brad who told his daddy, if you can get these guys, get them. When it was time for a change, Bob wanted us. We were in Georgia working
for Ole in a deal with Jarrett.
That was the Chattanooga deal?
I went down there on the Stray Cat thing on one deal, and went back a couple of years later with Danny and had Jimmy Hart with us. We
were working that territory and the Memphis territory really. We worked like, Memphis on Monday night, Columbus on Tuesday I think it
was, TBS on Wednesday maybe sometimes on Thursday, be back up here on Friday. My God, we doing like 3,000 miles a week. We only
worked for Ole for about a month or six weeks. We weren’t there long.
When you guys did the Nightmares cage match, Steve got out of the cage, leaving Johnny in there, and beating the devil out of him.
How did you feel being in the ring? Did you thing there was going to be a riot?
Oh yeah, oh yeah. When we first came up with the idea, we got to talking, Danny and I. To really get the whole thing laid out, we came up
with the idea of getting out of the cage first. Actually, I think that Danny came up with that part of it. We got to thinking. We told the other
guys when they came to get in the ring to get Johnny out that when they finally got the cage open. We were taunting the guys with the keys,
when they tried to climb the cage; we hit their hands with the length of chains so they couldn’t get in. They even tried to bust the lock
off with a chair. We got the key from knocking the referee down. In fact, I had the key.
Finally, after so long, the referee shoulder blocked me and threw the key out to them. I told those guys, when you come in the ring, donâ
€™t come to Danny and me. We only got 10 seconds by the time we get out of the ring to the dressing room or we’re not going to
make it to the dressing room. We knew that ahead of time and pretty much planned for it. We got right back to where the ramp is that
goes back to the dressing room on our side, that’s when the people realized we were out of the ring. I had hoped to already be in the
dressing room, but we understood. We knew it. When Steve hit the floor, the people went absolutely crazy. It was great. It took them a
second to realize, uh oh, and then they got quite. They went from, if you had a one to 10, and they were on a nine in decibels, they
dropped to zero quick. They realized, uh oh, this is not good. We heard it, we felt it.
One of the safety things was we were in the cage. The hope was when the guys come in, if they came to us, they’d slow us down. We
couldn’t get to the dressing room. Plus it would put attention back on us; we needed to get it on Johnny. We understood that. We
knew that. That’s why I sent instructions, don’t anybody come to us for no reason. I said you all go to Johnny; the concern should
be on Johnny. Give us time to clear out. There’s no doubt in my mind, we would never have made it to the dressing room, if they
slowed us down two steps; we would have been screwed.
The thing is, we already gone an hour and 15 minutes in the cage. I told Ron Fuller we had to go over an hour.
He said, “An hour in the cage?�
I said, “Yeah, it’s the rules; we have to.�
He said, “I guess you’re right.�
We weren’t tired or anything. We were in shape. We understood that once the attention was off of us momentarily, we had time to get
to the dressing room. Without running, you run, it draws attention. We knew we couldn’t run, but we couldn’t lollygag either. We
were totally aware of the position we put ourselves in, which was good, it was a great feeling. It was part of your job in the ring to create
those emotions. Like that night, the police came to the dressing room, and said we need to bring your car in. It cannot stay out there, and
they brought my car into the building.
When we left, there was a bunch of people out back, and they blocked off the road where we went out the backside and blocked off the
parking lot on the other side so no one could follow us. They told us when we tell you to come, come, don’t stop. If someone gets in
your way, run over them. Don’t worry about it, they know to move. When I came out the door, I didn’t stop. When they realized I
wasn’t stopping, they got the hell out of the way. When we got to road out back there, they had two squad cars pull up; block off traffic,
another one went to the gate to block off the gate. And we were gone, Pensacola, bound. We weren’t stopping. (Laughs)
And that was our intention, to create that feeling, but you also have to know how to protect yourself. Part of protecting ourselves was telling
those guys not to come to us. If they had come to us, I’d have broken someone’s nose. I’d have hit someone hard. I knew
what danger we were putting ourselves in.
Did you leave in the infamous Continental Town Car? Did you take your masks off, because no one knew what you looked like?
We left our masks on until we got away from the building. Thing was, I had that big ass maroon Lincoln Town Car. Whether we had the
masks on or not they knew I had Tennessee plates, it was real easy to spot my car. A lot of places if you go, like the store, they could have
found our car and knew who we were. We looked too much alike walking down the street, you know what I mean. If we were out, during
the day, nobody ever paid attention. It wasn’t on their mind.
If they were looking for us after a match, in fact there were some girls one time, followed us from Mobile to Pensacola. We never saw
them; I never noticed them following us. They saw the subdivision I turned up into. They waited 20 minutes. I found this out later. They
waited 20 minutes, drove into the subdivision and found my car. They got the address, went to the phone book and looked until they
found that address. And they thought my real last name was *******. The phone was in my wife’s maiden name. I would never put it in
my name that would be stupidity. They said something about Ken *******. I said no, what the fuck you talking about, you know.
Danny knew this girl, in fact, ended up marrying her, who knew these girls, and that’s how I found out they went through the phone
book and found the name. It was because of my car. As far as walking amongst people away from the matches, I never had any
problems. In fact, in Pensacola, it was never any problem, not where I lived out in Gulf Breeze.
When it came time to unmask the Nightmares, did you and Danny have any apprehension about removing the masks?
No, it was my idea.
Were you just tired of removing the masks?
No, because we knew in a few months, well a couple of things. One, we set up a long term deal with Ron Fuller, and we were going to
end up cutting Danny’s hair, my hair. We were going to cut Danny’s girlfriend’s hair and cut my wife’s hair. Danny’s
girlfriend, they split up before we got to their part, and my wife was pregnant, when it came time to cut her hair.
Ron wouldn’t do it. He said, “man if she were to have a miscarriage, it would be the wrong kind of heat.�
I said, “no man, do it. She’ll be alright with it.�
Even more long term, we knew after we did the hair thing, we’d be gone for awhile and coming back as baby faces. We were that far
ahead of ourselves, like a year and a half ahead. The only way we could get to the hair was to lose the masks, and we timed the masks
for Thanksgiving. That whole week, we had to turn them away.
The reaction you guys received when you came back to Continental as The Tennessee Stud’s and The Bullet’s mystery
partners against Kevin Sullivan and the New Guinea Headhunters was unbelievable. That must have been strange for you guys to get
cheered like that after being heels in the territory for so long.
It was a strange feeling. One, I’m not a baby face (Laughs). Then I saw the guys we had to work. God, Tio and Tapu, these guys are
huge. What am I going to do with these big sumbitches? But, the reaction the fans gave us, to me was very surprising, because we left
as heels, and just came back. And really by the door we came out of determined if we were heels or baby faces. And the reaction we got
when we came out surprised me.
I didn’t know how the people would react. I was glad they did. It made it a lot easier for us. At first, I couldn’t believe the reaction
we got; I wasn’t expecting it. Then considering all the big ass guys we had to wrestle. Really for that early part when we came back in
were giants. Basically, what Ron was trying to do was make giant killers out of us.
He did a real good job.
Yeah, he did a helluva job. I’m normally against shit like that, you know, but in this case none of this was my idea or anything. I just
did what the man asked me to do. But Danny and I always had a certain logic to what we were doing. I would never think about taking
down a big guy like I would somebody my size or close to it. We did a lot of doubling teaming and things. But to answer your question, I
was very surprised.
That really was a tremendous reaction, and Gordon [Solie] really helped to put you guys over too as babyfaces. You say you’re
not a babyface, but you cut a heck of a babyface promo.
Thank you. Well the thing too is that you got to realize, is that at some point along the line, because I never liked working babyface, to this
day, I still don’t like it, but because it’s a part of the business, somewhere along the line I decided I got to learn to do it. I knew
what it took. There are things you got to do as a babyface that’s just not in my heart. When I do the interviews, I have to believe it
myself. From that standpoint it is in my heart, but it’s just not my personality. Certain things you got to do, what was it, kiss hands and
shake babies?
I like to play with kids. I think they’re funnier than shit. Hell they’re brain dead until they’re about 20 years old, you know.
(Laughs) But they’re funny. Stuff like that I enjoyed a lot, but I finally decided look I just got to do this. The way I looked at it was it’s
a part of the business. The man wants me to do this; I need to know how to do it.
For me, for a long time, I looked at a babyface as the reverse of a heel. You can do that move wise, but the hard part is changing the
personality that you exuded or project. When I’m in the ring, it’s just natural for me to have a heel air about me. For me, it wasnâ
€™t hard, but awkward to change that to a baby face presence or projection. That’s the hard part of baby facing, not the moves, but
the way you present yourself. It’s not really what’s in my heart.
A lot of people rave about the feud you had with Robert Fuller and Jimmy Golden. Working with those two, what was that like?
Well, Jimmy more than Robert to me was a hoot. I’ve known Jimmy since I was seven, eight years old. My dad and I lived with Jimmy
and his dad in Louisiana. Then we were in Bill Golden’s deal in Montgomery. For me it was a lot of. Robert was ok. He put all the
work off on Jimmy. Made Jimmy mad, but it didn’t bother me a bit. Jimmy whined about it, but it was a lot of fun. Two guys I’ve
known basically all my life. I had known Robert and Jimmy since they were kids too.
That could have been part of Robert’s personality as a heel. Really he was still learning how to be a heel, up to about late 85,
early 86; he had been a career babyface.
Right.
He had only been working heel for about two years when you guys did your deal, so he did the cowardly heel type personality. So,
putting everything on Jimmy kind of makes sense.
Yeah. I found out too I couldn’t dropkick him.
Couldn’t dropkick him? Was he too tall?
No, no, no. I could get up. The problem was he flails his arms. I went to dropkick him one night and I had to jump really hard to dropkick
him and Jimmy because they are so tall. Cause I could do a regular dropkick like I’d do on most guys, and I’d hit them in the
belly. (Laughs) I had to jump real high to get my feet in there chest. I’d try to hit them in their face, but at least in the chest. Robert was
flailing his arms one night. I jumped; man I jumped hard. As I was going up, his arms caught my feet on the way up, and it likes
nosedives your feet, it can hurt you. I was like, ok, I won’t dropkick him no more. (Laughs) It was like a fan, like trying to dropkick a fan.
Trying to get through those arms, you know. That was the way he works. I just said, well, if he can’t get his arms out the way, then I
won’t dropkick him. I always dropkicked Jimmy instead. (Laughs) I made sure I threw no dropkicks Robert’s way.
It don’t take me long to figure things out. It was a lot of fun, mainly because I knew the guys virtually my whole life. They’re both a
little older than I am, so their my memories of me probably go back further than mine do of them. Of course, I knew their daddies. It was
like old home week for me. Even when I went down there it was that way. Jimmy and Robert and I and Danny, we all rode together,
especially Jimmy.
In fact, when I first got there, the first week or so, I stayed with Jimmy. In fact, he asked me to live there. He had built an extra room on to
his house for his dad, of course his dad died while he was building the house. I told Danny, I’d get place with him, and I did for a
short while. My wife came; well we got married then and bought a house a couple blocks away from Danny. Looking back, I kind of wish Iâ
€™d stayed with Jimmy. He put in a pool, and a hot tub. Shit it was nice.
Making a lot of money in that area.
Yes, sir. Everyone was making money, and that was a good thing man. And you weren’t spending any of it. You were home almost
every night. I went from 3,000 miles a week to a thousand. What a difference that was.
Your longest trip was up to Knoxville once Ron had opened up that end.
At first we weren’t even going up there. We were just going to Birmingham. We were doing 280 to Birmingham and 280 back. That
was our long trip of the week. Then of course when the Knoxville thing happened, we’d generally go up there and stay two days.
Pretty much after your feud with Robert and Jimmy concluded some things started to change in Continental. I believe David Woods
ended up with the company, and Rip Tyler began running in Pensacola with the World Organization of Wrestling (W.O.W). I
remember Continental wasn’t coming to Pensacola any more, and I was going down to the Bayfront and watching WOW. So
how did he pull out of Pensacola?
I think what happened was they lost their TV in Mobile, which you know they also had TV in Pensacola. The Mobile TV did 10 times more
than Pensacola because of the coverage. When they lost TV we just wouldn’t draw. This was before David Woods. I know Ron lost
the TV, not lost it, actually he had a problem with them and said screw you, I ain’t paying you no more. They’d pre-empt us, move
us around, which was really a violation of the contract he had with them.
So Ron just pulled his TV then?
Yeah. Well that wasn’t the deal he had. With the TV being bounced like that, you couldn’t really expect to draw. So we got to where
we couldn’t really draw in Mobile, and proportionately, Pensacola fell off. Well, with the moves and everything expanding North up to
Knoxville, it just opened up dates to run up that way.
Also, as it worked out too with Ron selling the company, he sold half the company, and then half again. It gave him the Northern half to
keep. David Woods from my understanding didn’t want to buy the whole thing. He ended up buying the whole thing in two different
blocks, you know what I mean.
Ron made a ton of money off that.
Yes he did. When I finished up, the thing where Danny and I split up, and I was back in Pensacola, it was still Continental. I was gone
already when David Woods bought the company.
So my time frame was a little bit off. So you ended up going to work for Rip Tyler in WOW. It started catching on, what happened with
that? I guess his money man fell through, right?
Well, I left before whatever happened with the money man happened. Actually, what had happened was, we shot a little video piece up in
Knoxville when I was leaving. At the end of it I told Danny I was going back to Pensacola. Rip just thought that was great.
Now there’s another one I’ve known all my life was Rip and Gino Sanazaro. I had known these guys for ages. Jerry Stubbs
comes by my house. Hey man, Rip wants to talk to you. I said ok, so I went by the office to talk to him. Made a money deal and said ok.
Well two weeks later, he called me to come to the office to talk to him. I said ok, what’s up now? I went in, and he asked me to start
doing the booking. I said ok. Get the facts and figures right, what you want me to do, and I started doing the booking. And looking back on
it, man what a crew I had. I had Stubbs, Kokina, Bob Holly, Percy Prin … not Percy Pringle …
Marcel.
God, he was a good hand. He could work. We had a helluva crew there. I didn’t realize what a good crew we had. The final thing for
me was Rip was bad about booking shows and wanting to cancel them, and it was causing a bit of a moral problem amongst the boys.
I could imagine that.
Yeah, and I saw it as a problem. They had a show coming up, two shows. One was in Clarksdale, Mississippi, and the other one was
around there, maybe around Tupelo. Any how they were about 500 damn miles away from Pensacola. I told them you’re crazy. I said
why run the boys way up there? It ain’t going to draw guy. We’ve only had TV a couple of weeks up there. It’s not going to
draw; it’s going to piss the boys off even more. At best they’re going to break even on the shot. I said it’s just stupidity. We
have a moral problem, and this is just going to make it worse. When I first found this out, a lot of things were happening at one time. The
money man from Japan came in, and Rip didn’t want for anybody talking to the man. By this time we switched over to the armory in
Pensacola.
I remember going to quite a few shows over there too.
Yeah! That’s a good building for wrestling. We were back in the locker room; well it’s not really a locker room, just a bunch of
offices. Well they had Saito; I think that’s what it was. He him back in one of the offices. He did want anyone to talk to him or have
anything to do with him. Well, I thought it was the shits.
Here I am the booker, and I can’t talk to him. What kind of bullshit is that? Something doesn’t smell right to me. Well, I just
busted in the room and introduced myself. Damn it I want to meet the man. I wanted to know who he was and meet him. That got a little
heat between Rip and me, which I didn’t really give a shit at this point. Cause I already had in my mind I was getting ready to quit
anyway. That wasn’t that big of a deal.
I knew something was up, something didn’t smell right. There were all kinds of little things that went on. I used to have to go to the
office just about everyday, for nothing really, you know. Just talk about nothing. I thought it was the shits, and every time we got something
to happen; Rip would want to change this, change that. To me it wasn’t worth my time. When the day come up to have to go to
Clarksdale, MS, roughly 400 miles from Pensacola, just about 90 miles from Memphis. Figure 400 miles the guys would be going for
nothing. I just went man it’s just not worth it. I believe in things running smoothly. If things are running smoothly, you make better
money.
The bottom line is we’re in the business to make money. The whole thing happened kind of quick. I wasn't expecting to work at all. I
planned on being off. I had a 14 year old sister who had come to Pensacola to live with me. I put her in school in Gulf Breeze. So it kind of
worked out good cause I had this extra expense, and I was making money too. I wasn’t working much. We taped TV every two weeks,
and we may have run one or two shows during the week if they weren’t canceled, which that pissed me a lot when they canceled
shows because that didn’t make a lot of sense to me.
There were a lot of things going on with that whole W.O.W. I thought it was shady. Here I was trying to get shit done. I couldn’t get
things done. They were canceling shows. They were doing things I thought that seemed like to keep shit from drawing, and I thought it
sucked. Here’s my name as the booker, but it’s not my fault it didn’t draw. There were other reasons for it. It just got to be a
headache I didn’t need.
Was this your first shot at being the booker?
No, not really. All that from the Nightmare cage match on that was my booking, mine and Danny, well mostly mine, but Danny’s too.
Pretty much since California I booked all my own stuff.
So that’s how you know when you made it in the business, right?
I guess. (Laughs) I don’t know. I think living in a big mansion tells you that too. (Laughs) I think I’ve just been real lucky. A good at
least 80 percent, 90 percent, since about 82, I’ve pretty much booked my own stuff. They come up and ask me, or they’ll throw an
idea at me. They may have an idea, and I’ll sit down and flush it out and say I like this and that: boom, boom, boom. Let’s go
handle it. I’d also give other guys ideas.
Like Ron Fuller and I, which I wasn’t the booker or assistant booker or anything like that, I just rode and talked to him a lot. From
Birmingham to Pensacola we’d come up with a lot of ideas. It wasn’t always just me by myself. Even with Lawler, he was the
booker, but I still had say so. It wasn’t just straight out do this. I’ve been real lucky with that. But as far as handling everything
myself, doing all the booking that was my first time.
So after this deal with W.O.W. was done, you went back to Continental?
No, actually I think I came back to Memphis, and was working up here for a little while. Lawler was doing the booking. Somewhere in
there I ended up getting the US Jr. belt. What it was, Robert was booking at this time, David Woods. After I finished with W.O.W, I stayed at
home. Somehow or another I don’t know how I ended up in Memphis. I still had my home in Florida, but I was up here working. I
ended up with the US Jr. belt. The idea was... it was Robert’s idea.
Jimmy Golden kept calling me, but we kept missing each other. After about a week, two weeks, we finally got in touch with each other.
They wanted me to have that belt, and I could use it any place I wanted to, as long it wasn’t in opposition against them. They wanted
me to come in like once a month, or every two weeks for TV, come in once a month and work the territory for like a week, hit all their
towns, as US. Jr. champion. And the idea was try to get pretty much, what’s now called cruiserweights, type deal happening. There
were a lot of smaller guys out there that nothing was being done with. Robert kind of looked at it like hell let Kenny go do it. If anyone can
do it, he can kind of what he was thinking. Sure, no problem with that.
I talked to Lawler that week before I ever went down there. I was in the car with him. We were in the car together. We used to make trips
together, since we both lived in Memphis. I told him the deal. He said hell yeah we’ll use that sumbitch. Bring it on. I was working
here and down there for a short period. Somehow or another I’m thinking I got to Montgomery one day to do TV, and Robert was gone
and Eddie [Gilbert] was booking. I’m thinking that’s the way it happened.
Eddie sat down with me that day, and asked me to go fulltime with him. I was working down there; I was working here, and other little
organizations too trying to do something with that belt. When I got to TV that day, hell I didn’t know Robert was gone. When I showed
up, here’s Eddie, which was good. That was a good thing (Laughs) Usually, when you get there, and the same guy’s not there,
you go oh no, but it worked out really good for us.
So, that’s when you and Danny got to shoot your angle, one of the easily top 10, if not top 5 turns of all time.
Thank you.
People still talk about it still today, the reunion, everything.
Eddie’s the one who presented that to me about the splitting. I said fuck yes. That would be great. Who else do I know better than
Danny, as far as having matches and what we’re going to do? Eddie and I pretty much both booked that out. It wasn’t all him,
wasn’t all me. Actually, Danny didn’t throw in too many ideas. He was just kind of like, let’s do it.
Danny trusted me, and he trusted Eddie. Danny trusted me with his life, and we had the same ideas in mind. We knew what it takes to
draw money. One of the things I told Eddie was I don’t mind doing it, but I want to do it right. Eddie said no problem. (Laughs) Anyway
you want to do it. So I sat down, milled around in my head for awhile. Talked to Danny. Eddie and I used to ride together a lot too, always
rode in the backseat. Usually after the matches, we’d kick around all kinds of ideas. Some of your best ideas come up on a trip. I told
him what my idea was, and we went with it. Eddie allowed me the freedom to do it however I wanted.
And made some money off of it.
Yes, oh yeah. That was the thing man. That was the whole idea, to make money. What was so great about having Danny is Danny knew
what it took to draw money. If I’m beating the shit out of him and leaving him laying, a lot of the baby faces they got those egos. Oh,
you’re making me look like shit. No we’re not. Danny understood all that, so it made it a freaking breeze, man. Danny didn’t
have the ego problem that a lot of guys had. Like wearing the dress that time in Ozark, that was Eddie’s idea. I think he just wanted to
see me in a dress. (Laughs) When Eddie came up with ideas like that, he’d give you the basic idea.
I was real pleased with having the opportunity to do that. I’d like to have killed Danny before we ever had our first match. I beat him to
death. I split his head open in two places with one shot. Cut him open in the front and the side of his head. I hit him with the belt. The big
plate busted him in the front, and the side plate slapped him in the side of the head. When I had the dress on, I dropped a leg on him
split both of his lips. (Laughs) I said damn, we got to have a match, I’m killing you man. Which he really didn’t mind, it’s a
part of it. Those things happen.
I hadn’t worked against Danny since I first started in 1979. We spent all that time together. Hell, I knew everything he could do; he
knew everything I could do. It made it so easy. We knew each other’s capabilities and limitations.
I know what I was supposed to ask you. You were there when it went from Southeastern to Continental. We were wondering if that
was Ron’s way of being national, without being national if you catch my meaning.
Well, he was working on a deal with CBS. When you use the name Southeastern that puts you in the Southeastern United States.
Continental can be all the United States, Canada and Mexico. On a larger base appeal, Southeastern is not going to get over in the
Pacific Northwest, Arizona or Tulsa. I don’t know this for a fact, but being around him at the time. He and I talked about switching over
to taping at Boutwell. One of his concerns was hurting the gates in Birmingham. We talked about that, about six or eight weeks later. I
asked him was it hurting, at the time it wasn’t.
By the time David Woods took over it did. The tapings took forfuckingever. There was a lot of downtime. Everything you seen at the
matches you could go home and see it on TV. Ron wasn’t quite doing it that way. Doing it the way he did it was a balance. You had to
have a good show, but you couldn’t give them everything. Sure you could give them everything, but what are they going to come to
see? It’s not like WWE, on their Monday night RAW they give them everything, cause that’s the show. They don’t have to
come back to that town next week.
There’s a fine balance there that Ron had to juggle. I think he did a helluva job. Ron’s one of the smartest men I’ve ever met
in this business, he and Jerry Jarrett. I know they brought in some lights, because CBS said our lighting was poor. So, Ron rented some
big ass lights. Had them bring them in, set them up. We did some tapings that way, CBS still didn’t like it. I think Ron just said the
hell with it. I think at that time, the deal was coming up with David Woods. Well, maybe it wasn’t. It may have been in the works, but it
was still seven, eight, ten months off. I think that deal took a long time. I know Ron sold it to some people in Georgia, an investment
company. That deal didn’t last long. It was all screwed up. I already left by then. It wasn’t that he was trying to look national
without going national. He was going to go national!
That’s why the CBS deal. That would have been a network show, which would have taken it national. It was when that deal didn’t
quite pan out that he went looking for David Woods. It was either let’s do this, or I’m getting out. Ron and I talked about all kinds
of stuff. One of the things was about being in a territory after about ten or twelve years, with the same bookers, you cycle them. The people
get used to that routine.
You had the same thing in Memphis. You’d have Jerry Jarrett book for awhile, then Lawler would come in, it would come up. It’d
go down a little bit, then Bill Dundee would start booking, it would come up. When it went down a little bit, Jerry Jarrett would come back
in. By the time you’ve done that three or four cycles, the people are used to changes, it’s not new anymore. A new booker would
come in, a different style, all right. After you seen that style twice, seen the rotation, the people didn’t realize that’s what it was, but
that is in reality what it was.
I think he could see that happening down there. He had a broader vision what was going on with Vince, and he knew he could sell it, get
out from under it, and be done with it, have money in the bank, go out and build hockey teams, if he couldn’t do the national deal.
Well, the national deal didn’t happen, well let’s sell this son of a bitch. To me, that’s smart business.
Like I say, I think he’s one of the smartest guys I ever met in the business, in a lot of ways. I could sit here and tell you stories forever
about Ron and things I saw. Little things that he would say or do that maybe at the moment didn’t make a lot of sense to me, but after
putting a little thought to it, saw it, able to see what he was doing, it all made sense. Ron was a very smart sumbitch.
So, do you think if the territory stayed in Fuller’s hands, it would have lasted longer than it did?
Oh, there’s no doubt in my mind, none whatsoever. Ron got tired of not having enough help. He had Bob Armstrong, that’s it, in
the company. Jimmy would do anything you’d tell him to do. Robert, it was like pulling teeth to get him to do anything. If he’d have
more help, he would have stayed in it.
*** Editor’s Note: Unfortunately, the conclusion of this interview has been lost.
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