Georgia Wrestling History - the Home of Peach State Pandemonium: Features - Conversations

First, let’s start off by talking about your relations in the business. I know your father in law was Aaron Newman, your brother in law was Dick Steinborn, and of course, Ted is your brother. When you were a kid, what led you toward a career in professional wrestling?

Well, I was a baseball player during all of my childhood. At the age of thirteen I got sick. I got a kidney infection. That hampered my ball playing for over a year. I was bedridden for about two months, and after that I wasn’t allowed to run or exert myself or anything like that. I could go to school, but when I’d come home I couldn’t go out and play. I had to stay in the house.

I watched a lot of wrestling then. We were getting wrestling out of Chicago. So I watched a lot of wrestling then. I had always gone to the matches when I was a little boy here in Columbus. At the age of thirteen my sister married Dick Steinborn and it kind of went from there.

So you were seeing wrestling from Chicago on the Dumont network, which at that time was run by Fred Kohler and Jim Barnett.

Yeah, it was run out of the Amphitheater in Chicago.

Right. So I guess when you’d get to see guys like Argentina Rocca and Gorgeous George who you could only see on television coming through Columbus and working for Fred Ward it was a big deal.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. That was the only wrestling on TV here then.

Atlanta started televising their wrestling in 1954. When did Fred Ward begin having his matches on television?

I’m going to tell you – because Dickie helped them with the first few broadcasts – it had to be – let’s see, he and my sister got married in 1962 I think – they probably went on the air here in 1964 maybe.

Wow. That’s much later than I would have thought. So you couldn’t see any of Fred Ward’s group before then on TV?

No.

So then I guess after national wrestling left the networks in 1955 there was about ten years of no televised wrestling in Columbus.

There wasn’t any at all, but when Mr. Ward went on, it was all live. In fact, it was the last live show in the country.

Did you get to see any of the Atlanta programs back then? I mean, were they sending tapes down to be shown, or did that come later?

That came much later.

Did you do any amateur wrestling.

Yeah, I wrestled in high school.

How good were you?

Not real good. (laughs) I’m just being honest. My buddies and I had always gone to the matches here – of course, when my sister married a wrestler we were all into it. Where I went to school – in my first year there – they didn’t even have a wrestling program. So we talked them into getting a wrestling team started and they just took one of the football coaches and made him a wrestling coach.

Of course, we didn’t do too good. Our first year, we went over to a school in Alabama, and they had a state champion over there. We didn’t know anything about that. This kid weighed 164 pounds, and they were getting him ready to go to the state championships. Their coach talked our coach into going over there and working out with him. Well, he beat every one of us. I mean, he just went through us like it was nothing. We got introduced to what amateur wrestling was all about. Of course, you know, we never did get anywhere close to what they were because they’d always had a wrestling program.

How did you get involved in the pros?

I kept doing a lot of amateur wrestling after I got out of school. I’d find different places and people to work with. I kept it up and my sister and Dickie moved to Florida – he went back to Orlando where his dad was promoting. When they were up here for Christmas one year, I told him, “I want you to teach me how to wrestle.” He said, “that’s kind of hard for me to do when I live in Orlando and you live in Columbus.” Three months later I was living in Orlando. That’s how I got my start.

Which leads me to my next question. The oldest match results I have found for you so far is from September 1970 against Ron Garvin. Would that have been about the time frame we’re looking at here?

I got started in March of 1970.

Well, I guess we’ll keep digging further back to find that one.

As a matter of fact, I have a flier from my first match. It was in Fort Myers, FL. I’ll see if I can find that for you. I think I know where it is actually.

That would be a great addition to accompany this interview for the magazine. Obviously you spent your first year in Florida and on into 1971. What was that first year like down there?

I had a lot of matches, but I wasn’t wrestling full time. The talent pool down there was just unbelievable. You know, Jack Brisco was just getting started. Bob Roop, Hiro Matsuda, the Missouri Mauler, Jose Lothario were there – and Garvin – Dale Lewis – and they let me wrestle on weekends. Then I’d go to Tampa and do some refereeing. Just being in the ring and being around those guys…

…getting you some experience…

…exactly. Some guys say, “I don’t wanna referee”, but you know, I learned a lot by doing that by being in there with polished guys. But I started down there, and once I started full time – I only did that for four or five months – and then Dickie and Buddy Fuller were going to buy Australia from Jim Barnett.

So we packed up and left Florida and sold everything we had. Dickie and my sister sold their home, sold their car, sold their furniture – and I came here to Columbus. I was here about three days and they were coming up so Dickie and I could fly to Australia, and later our families would follow us. So I get to Columbus. I was here about three days and Dickie called me and said, “the deal’s off.”

Somehow or another the deal fell through. I was thinking, “Oh, my God,” you know. All the stuff I had accumulated was gone, and they had sole everything they had. So I asked him, “what are we gonna do?”, and he said he was coming to Georgia anyway and would get us booked in Georgia. Sure enough he did, and I stayed here for about a couple of years.

Yeah, the first match I see you having in Georgia was in November 1970. You and Steinborn against the Assassins at the Atlanta City Auditorium.

When was that exactly?

November 27.

Sounds right. We came up here right after Thanksgiving.

And this would have been the Friday after Thanksgiving.

The Sunday prior to that, we were working out in Orlando. We were doing squats and I was spotting him, and he dropped 405 off his back onto my thighs. So when I came to Atlanta the first time I couldn’t even bend my legs. I’ve still got indentations from that. (laughs)

I show the Assassins going over you that night, but then the next day on television, you went over the Great Ota by disqualification. Then I have a gap in our research until December 26 with you and Bob Griffin at the Auditorium in Atlanta. Who was Bob Griffin? I see his name a lot around Georgia results, but not much elsewhere.

You know, I’ve asked guys about him, but – you know, he was a nice looking guy and had a nice body – he lives now, or so I heard, in Pensacola. He’s in the heating and air business, I believe. That’s the last I heard of him. He was a good hand.

Just one of those guys who never caught on somewhere.

No, never did, but he was a nice guy, and had a good look. I don’t know why he didn’t go other places. This is the only place I ever knew he wrestled.

Being here in 1970, you probably got to know Ray Gunkel somewhat. Tell me about Ray.

He didn’t come around much. If you did see him, it was at the Auditorium on Friday nights. He was very impressive looking guy, and a serious businessman. I liked Ray. He was always nice to me. He treated me alright.

One think I have noticed is that by this time he was more or less not wrestling that much. He seemed to be more active behind the scenes, and just doing the occasional shot and working into an angle, but not over doing it.

Exactly. Just to keep his name out there. And, you know, he died right there in front of Dickie in Savannah.

And we will get to that a little bit later. In early 1971, we can’t find anything on you. Did you go back to Florida at that time?

No, I went to Mobile.

Okay, so you went to work for the Gulf Coast territory.

Right.

Of course, there was a lot of good talent around that area.

Oh, yeah. They had it divided up because it was such a big territory. I worked the Mississippi towns like Biloxi, Gulfport, Hattiesburg, Meridian – I wasn’t down there too long. I came back to Georgia from there.

Gulf Coast is an area that I have become quite curious about of late. I have found there was a lot of great talent down there that very few people who didn’t live there even knew about.

It was a great place, man.

Was Bob Kelly already booking down there at that time?

No, he was still just one of the guys.

Did you ever get the opportunity to wrestle Bob?

No, I never did. I’ll tell you one person I wrestled who was a great worker down there – Greg Peterson.

I’ve always heard good things about him.

Oh, I loved him. He was just a sweetheart of a guy. I was still a little wet behind the ears. Those guys knew Dickie was my brother in law, so that probably helped a little, but they’d always treat me good. They would take time to help me and talk to me. One of my favorite people of all time was Ken Lucas.

And one of the most underrated as well…

Oh, God, yeah. Those people down there just idolized him. I never understood why he didn’t go other places.

I’ve always heard if he had left there he would have had a much bigger career.

He would have. And he was the funniest guy you could ever be around. It was constant ribbing. He was the biggest ribber in the world. Can I tell you a story?

Sure – that’s why we’re doing this.

I was living in a hotel down there. He called me one Sunday and asked if I wanted to go out to eat with him and some of the other boys. He told me he was cutting his grass and would come by when he was done.

About an hour later he pulls up and I got in the passenger side of his Volkswagen. He had a brown bag in his hand and says, “while I was outside cutting the grass I found this in the front yard.” He held the bag up and turned it over and this snake fell across my legs. (laughs) I just about turned that car over trying to get out of it. (laughs) I thought he was going to have a massive heart attack laughing at me. It wasn’t real. But the ribs he pulled never ended.

Then about four years ago, I was going through some numbers and I came across his and called him up. He said, “Oh, Jerry, is so good to hear from you, have you heard about all my troubles?” I thought, “oh no, hear we go again.” He said, “Anita died, and my daughter was in a wreck and got decapitated.” Well, I started laughing so hard – I just busted out laughing. And he says, “no, Jerry, it really happened.” I mean, he had to sit there and convince me it had really happened.

His wife was sweet. They invited my wife and I over one night to eat down in Pensacola. He said, “come on over. We’re having spaghetti. Be here about eight.” They put supper on the table at three o’clock in the morning. (laughs) It was a rib. They were waiting on us to ask when we were going to eat. That’s just how Kenny was. Gulf Coast had great talent. I know you’ve heard of the Wrestling Pro – Tarzan Baxter?

Oh, yeah. He’s a legend down there.

He was so over down there. They had Dick Dunn and Greg Peterson. That was a great territory down there. It really was. Rocky McGuire was the promoter in Dothan. Do you know that name?

Yep.

Rocky ran Dothan and a little town in Florida on Saturday night – Quincy, that’s it. I don’t know what other towns he had.

I always heard he was a fair promoter.

Rocky was a great guy.

Was that a good paying territory? I mean, the trips weren’t that long. I would think the money may not be the same as other territories, but with the short trips you have less expenses.

Yeah, that’s why Ken stayed there. It wasn’t the greatest, but it wasn’t that bad. I’ve got some posters here from Columbus – you look back and see ringside seats cost $3.50 – for ringside. But yeah, you could make pretty good money down there.

And look what McMahon’s charging for any seat now, much less for ringside.

Oh, God, I know it. It’s madness.

You came back to Georgia in April 1971. The first match I show you having on that run here was a tag team match against Michel Dubois, who would later be known as Alexis Smirnoff, and Fidel Castillo. Your partner that night was none other than Jim Wilson.

God. I used to make trips with that guy. He was nuts. Wilson was something else, man. (laughs) I liked him, but I don’t know. He wasn’t right.

He’s put a lot of stories out there lately that show a different account of his career than the facts show.

What’s he putting out?

Well, he co-wrote a book called Chokehold, where he adamantly claims Jim Barnett made sexual advances toward him in Australia, and when he refused, it ruined his career because Ray Gunkel had already promised him the NWA World Heavyweight Title.

He was no more promised that than I have promised anyone working for me a world title. (laughs) He was being used because he showed an interest in the business, and the office figured they could use his name to help draw since he had been playing for the Falcons and the Rams…

…and the Bulldogs as an All-American…

…yeah. He wasn’t one of the guys who would have been like Wahoo or Ernie or some of those guys.

Jody Hamilton has said he was one of the worst guys to have to work with in the ring.

Oh, it was hideous. I used to watch him do stuff to guys and think he was going to kill somebody. He was hideous. He didn’t care. He used to ride around in his Cadillac convertible, and we didn’t mind that, but he had an attitude that he was better than us, and why should he learn from us. He may have it in his mind that he was promised that, but one sure fire way to kill the business would be to put the belt on him. (laughs)

Throughout that spring, I show you working against a great list of people: Buddy Colt, Guillotine Gordon, “Crazy” Luke Graham, Billy Spears, who of course, recently passed away.

You know, I heard that. Is that true?

Yeah, he passed away in early November.

How old was Billy?

They say he was 72.

No way. He was that old?

That’s what the reports said.

I had some great programs with him.

He was pretty underrated. I’ve seen some of his matches and he looked pretty good in the ring.

Oh, he was very underrated. I really enjoyed working with him.

I’m sure you worked Columbus before this, but the earliest Columbus card I have nailed down so far with you on it is June 1971 – you and Roberto Soto versus Rocket and Flash Monroe. I know Rocket, and he’s a character, but tell me about Flash.

I love Rocket, man. Flash was hard to have a match with to me.

Not very fluid?

Just his style – they were a good team. It’s kind of like my brother and Wayne Cowan had some great matches, but I couldn’t stand wrestling Ted. The Monroes did well here. Sputnik was a good worker. You mentioned Buddy Colt earlier. I loved wrestling with him.

We interviewed him for our last issue.

I thought the world of him. He carried himself well – of course, he was on top here. A lot of time on Saturday nights I would get to work with him. I was still green as grass, but they’d book me with him in Carrollton and Griffin. He wouldn’t get in there and guzzle me. He was the kind of guy who let you get in there for awhile and learn. It was a pleasure to work with him. Then, when I was in Kansas City and we heard the news that morning about their plane going down, man, it was awful.

There was a lot of talent on that plane.

God, tell me about it. We heard that and I started crying. I knew all of them, and to hear Bobby had died was just horrible.

He probably would have dominated the business if he hadn’t died then.

He probably would have. And he had a lot of good ideas.

You had some tag team bouts on this run as well with Bob Armstrong. What are your thoughts on Bob?

We have a very good relationship. I used to stay over at his house when I’d stay in Atlanta. His kids were just little fellows back then. Bob treated me great. I thought the world of him and Derrell Cochran.

Derrell is another guys I was going to ask you about. I know Derrell retired from the Fire Department, but I understand Bob quit to wrestle full time. Was he still working for them at this time?

Yeah, Derrell retired from there, and he begged Bob not to quit. Bob was a lieutenant.

Oh, I didn’t realize he had moved up that high.

Oh, yeah. He was used mainly by the Wards back then, mainly here in Columbus, Macon, and Americus, you know. Atlanta didn’t push him that hard back then. Mr. Ward got behind him and pushed him – made him a lot of money. If Bob was scheduled to be in Columbus on Wednesday and for the department on Thursday, he would pay the guys to cover for him until he could get back up there. He was doing real well. I always thought the world of Bob.

Well, you also have Bob Armstrong Appreciation Night coming up next week (Bob was scheduled to appear for Jerry’s new Georgia Championship Wrestling card for their New Year’s Day card).

That’s right.

Yeah, I don’t think he really got pushed in Atlanta until after the split.

They just wouldn’t give him that little push. I don’t know if it was something with Gunkel or not. You know, Ray was the boss.

Well, you spent the rest of 1971 working for Georgia. You worked some with Bill Dromo as a partner, too. I love Bill – he’s such a great guy – but what was he like in those days?

He’s so funny. We talked to about Ken Lucas and his ribs. Well, Dromo was the same way. We used to pull something on each other every night. There was always something going. He’d hide your shoes one night, hide your trunks the next – it was just ongoing with him. When he was down here a few weeks ago we laughed about a lot of that. You could be making a trip and you’d see his car on the side of the road. He’d be down at the creek fishing. (laughs) I swear, he’d carry his rod and reels with him. He’d leave early just so he could do that. I always liked Bill. He’s a good guy.

Let me ask you about Tim Geohagen. He worked in Georgia a lot through the years, but there’s very little I know about him. What kind of wrestler was he?

Timothy was never a main eventer, but he was a good hand. Do you know the deal about the sleeper hold?

Do you mean the incident on television where the fan broke out of the hold?

Yeah.

Sure, Buddy Colt told us about that.

Yep. His name was Jim McKinney. He was a bricklayer and he had strong hands. He pulled Timmy’s hands right off of him. (laughs) Well, Gunkel went berserk because it cost him $1,000.

I heard he was pretty upset with Tom Renesto about that. (laughs)

Yeah, you can’t be doing stuff like that. I swear, they went berserk. That was really the end of Timmy in Georgia. You can’t really do much with him after that. (laughs)

In the summer of 1972, you went back down to the Gulf Coast territory again.

Yeah, that was my last stint down there.

I show you going over a guy named Black Bart down there. Who was that, do you remember?

That wasn’t Ricky Harris was it?

No, this was too early for him.

I have no idea.

How about this name from that run – Tiger Hamilton. Any idea who that would have been?

I don’t remember. Did I wrestle him?

Yeah.

(Laughs) That’s sad, isn’t it? That’s sad.

After 1972, I can’t find anything on you until you returned to Georgia around the time of the split.

I went to Montgomery and worked for Bill Golden. Do you see anything on that?

No.

Well, if you lost track of me around that time, that’s where I was at.

What was that group?

My brother was there, and I used it as a holding place until I went back to Georgia. Ted was there. Frank Marconi was there. Of course, Jimmy Golden was there. Alex Perez – no not Perez – what was that guy’s name?

Alex Medina?

No. Let’s see Buddy Wayne was there. Ramon – Ramon Perez was the guy’s name. You ever heard of him?

Doesn’t ring a bell immediately.

Great worker. He was a wiry little guy who could really work. That was really not much of a territory.

Was it some sort of offshoot thing or an outlaw?

Well, they just didn’t get much going on. I don’t remember that much about what it was about.

You mentioned Ted was working there. When did he actually get started?

He started sometime around 1972.

The next thing I see is right around the split, but you work for All-South for a few weeks before going over to the NWA side.

Yeah, I got caught up in all of that. My father in law (Aaron Newman – Savannah promoter) got caught in the middle of that, too. I had already been booked with the old Georgia office. By the time I got here, the split had just happened. So I went with the new group, which was Renesto and all of the talent except for Armstrong and Derrell. Then, my father in law had to make a decision about what he was going to do. I mean, it was a huge mess here, man.

Yeah, I’ve heard a lot of horror stories about the incidents leading up to it and how it played out.

I’m sure they’re all true. So now I’m working for All-South and married to the daughter of one of the promoters. He had gone with them because he didn’t actually know what had happened. I went to him and he said he was going to get away from them. He and Fred Ward had been friends for years, and they talked about it and realized they couldn’t go along with it.

So he switched back almost as quickly as you did.

Exactly. He was in the middle.

Let’s sidestep a little bit. When did Aaron Newman start promoting?

In the 1950s.

And he promoted at least through the 1970s because I know he was the promoter at the time Georgia sold Savannah to Jim Crockett in 1976.

Right, he was running it for them then.

Did he continue into the 1980s?

I think he did into the early 1980s.

So he was there almost as long as Paul Jones and Fred Ward had their towns.

Yeah.

You said that he and Ward got together and agreed they needed to remain with the NWA side of the war. I always heard that Ward had originally told Ann he would follow them, but pulled out at the last minute, which caused Columbus to go through some legal issues before All-South could run shows there.

I know that Eddie Graham came flying up out of Florida. Eddie was – people didn’t buck Eddie. In my opinion, Eddie Graham was a genius when it came to the wrestling business. How this all really happened, the way I know it – Buddy Fuller and them were going to throw Ann out of the office. They all got together – Renesto, Dickie, and all of them – and they said they were going to take over Georgia. I think the TV was in Ray’s name.

Oh, really?

That’s what I was told. So everybody got caught up in the middle. What they were all being told was it was going to keep running like it was, but that wasn’t how it was. It was another way. Mr. Ward wasn’t going to buck Eddie Graham, and my father in law wasn’t going to either. Eddie had ties up here – what ties I don’t know, but he had them. Of course, I went back, and it worked out for me. Of course, there were a bunch of lowlifes that came in here. (laughs)

I understand Eddie and Jerry Jarrett were in here first trying to repair the damage, and of course, the Fullers had a hand in as well.

Let me tell you what they did. I hadn’t been in the business long, but I had been around it for a long time. I wasn’t stupid to the business. When the split happened and I went back they all told me they were glad I came back. Well, Ted went in and worked for Ann. I’m rocking and rolling and doing pretty good. They were trying to get me to come back over there.

As the deal really started playing itself out, they were really as greedy as everybody else. I’m not talking about Fred Ward. I’m talking about the Fullers – the Welch’s. What they did – my father in law promoted Savannah, Waycross, Brunswick, and some other spot shows that did real well. What they wanted was Savannah for themselves. They take me in Atlanta and put me on TV. I was on two tapes every Saturday, and they started beating me. They did this for like two weeks.

Then they got me to main event in Savannah. I went absolutely berserk when I found out they were having me main event with Tyler in Savannah. I told Ralph Freed that I know I was young, but I wasn’t stupid. I told him and Eddie Graham both that they knew it wasn’t going to draw a damn dime. I told them that was wrong. Eddie told me there was a war going on and that I didn’t understand what was going on. Then he told me when I get done in Georgia he wanted me to come back to Florida, but I never went back down there.

Anyway, it all kind of took care of itself, but it was a huge mess. I mean, over on the other side, Renesto started booking Don Serrano in main events on their side. He’s about as tall as Amy Young (short lady wrestler who has worked for Jerry’s current GCW group), and they were putting him in main events with Ernie Ladd. (laughs) What the hell is that going to do?

Yeah, that’s already been put out there that the opinion is Tom Renesto booked All-South into the ground because perhaps Jim Barnett paid him to do so.

I have heard that from day one, and you know what? I believe it.

Well, look where he ended up when the war was over – working for the NWA office for Barnett.

Exactly.

A little too coincidental. (laughs)

Yeah. I was there in the thick of all that shit. There was all kind of threatening stuff going on. It was horrible.

Let’s step back a little bit. When the whole thing first went down, they had Gordon Solie come in early 1973 to replace Ed Capral, who had gone to work for Ann. They also brought in Johnny Walker to do the Mr. Wrestling #2 gimmick because Eddie Graham’s top face at the time was Tim Woods as Mr. Wrestling, and he didn’t want to give him up. Of course, that made Walker’s career. They pretty much used him and Bob Armstrong to rebuild the promotion from scratch. You stayed the rest of that year. Now, when exactly did Bill Watts come in? I know Harley Race had the book for about a year and started in 1973.

He was in wrestling right away. I can’t remember when he – well, let’s see – my mother in law in Savannah had gotten real sick. It was somewhere in 1973 and Watts came in around that same time. I know he was booking. He told me, “you know you’ve been here awhile.” I told him, “I know.” He said, “I know your mother in law has cancer, but don’t worry about anything. You just stay here and keep rolling along and we’ll see what happens.” Wait a minute – that’s wrong. He did tell me that, but I think…

…well, your last matches here then were in October and you didn’t come back until April 1974. I believe you were in Texas around that time.

I went to Dallas for about three months. That’s another horror story in itself.

Yeah, I understand you had some main events down there with the Blackjacks (Mulligan and Lanza).

Man, Leo Garibaldi – I went ahead of myself. That stuff about Watts happened after I came back from Texas.

Okay. Yeah, I was about to point out again that Harley was booking in 1973 and he did it for about a year, and Watts came after him.

That’s right. You want to hear the story about Texas?

Sure.

Leo Garibaldi was the booker in Texas. I’d known Leo since I was a kid. He and Dickie had started about the same time and were good friends. Leo was one of the greatest bookers in the business.

No arguments from me on that.

I used to watch him work when I first started and he was amazing. I had gone through a divorce and was re-married. To make a long story short, Leo was in Dallas. He called me and asked if I was interested in working in Dallas and I told him, “yeah.” He said, “this is what I’m going to do – I’m going to make you the hottest thing in Texas.”

I believed Leo, so I went to Dallas. The first night there I wrestled Blackjack Lanza. I beat the hell out of him, and about that time a guy comes up out of the seats. It’s Mulligan. My wife thinks it’s just some big cowboy. (laughs) I cream him – boom, boom, boom. Leo got me over that quick – the first night there. I beat both the Blackjacks.

Okay, the deal was, Fritz was retiring and they needed someone to come in and take his place on top for however long. I was like twenty-four years old or whatever, and here I was the biggest thing in Texas overnight. I was so over because of Leo. I’m out there and I’m doing great. I was out there for three months. I was saving money and my wife loved Dallas.

Leo gives me a call on a Wednesday morning and asks me, “where are you at tonight – San Antonio?” I said, “yes.” He told me to come by the Sportatorium before I leave. I got off the phone and told my wife, “I’m about to get my notice.” She told me that was impossible, but I told her again. I told her something’s not right about it. I had just seen him the night before.

So I get down there and Leo took me out in the arena so we could sit down. He asked me if I had any idea why he called me down there. I told him, “yeah, you’re going to give me my notice.” He looked at me real funny and said, “how did you know?” I said, “I just felt that was why you called me here.” When he asked me if I knew why, I said, “yeah, I know why. Because you got me over.” He said that was exactly right. Fritz couldn’t stand it.

He was upset because he was no longer the top man.

That’s right. That’s the gospel. You can call Leo and ask him. Leo told me, “Fritz is going to come back.” That was the end of that.

I would expect that out of Dusty Rhodes, too. (laughs)

You know, this is like the thing we have going on down here. I want to get in the ring and work every now and then, but this thing ain’t about me. It’s not built around me. I’ll lay down in a minute. That joker couldn’t stand it. That’s when I came back into Georgia again. And that’s when Watts came back. And my mother in law got better.

I went to Bill and told him I could go somewhere, and he told me there was a spot for me in Kansas City, so I went out there. Harley told me when I was getting ready to head out, “we’ve got to get your brother out of here, too.” He knew All-South was going to fold soon so I should see if I can find him a spot. I was there for awhile and then my brother came out and started working there, too.

Yeah, I’m seeing where you went there in October 1974, and Ted joined you around November, which was the same month All-South closed it’s doors.

That’s exactly right.

You ended up winning the Central States Heavyweight Title not too long after you got there. Was that the first belt you had?

I had the Columbus Heavyweight Championship, and my brother and me had been the champions up in Montgomery.

Okay. I show where you guys got into a program with the Outlaws, who at that time were Dutch Mantell and Ron Bass.

Exactly. I didn’t enjoy working with either one of them. Ted and Mantell had already had some great matches.

Yeah, they had a great program here in All-South.

The match of my career was in Kansas City – my brother and I against the Martin Brothers.

Tommy and Terry.

That’s it. You know, they ran Nova Scotia.

Right.

We went an hour one night and all the guys stayed and watched it. It’s a shame I don’t have that on tape. It’s the best match I’ve ever been involved in. We tried to duplicate it the next night in St. Joe and the people just sat on their hands. (laughs) I swear. These guys today go over things in such great detail, but it never works out the way you plan it.

I show here, too, where you and Mike George won the Central States Tag Team Title early in your run there.

Yeah, we teamed up before Ted came out there.

You won those belts from the Interns, Jim Starr and Tom Andrews.

That’s exactly right, and Ken Ramey was their manager.

I met Ken at Mobile last year. He was a super guy.

Yeah, I like Ken.

Continued

FEATURES: CONVERSATIONS - JERRY OATES

WRITERS

This interview was conducted by Rich Tate in December 2004.

Jerry Oates’ career is still going strong some thirty-four years after he made his debut in 1970. Born into a family that included many connections within the business, he, along with his brother Ted, formed arguably the most successful Georgia born tag team ever. Jerry spent portions of his career all over the country, but always had ties to Georgia and is now running a new version of Georgia Championship Wrestling, based in his hometown of Columbus.