| Johnny, when we last spoke I asked you about the ties to Hawaii, and you explained that your father was in the Navy and was based there. Were you born there, or was that just a relocation in your childhood?
No, I relocated there. Where were you born? Charleston, South Carolina. But you were mostly raised in Hawaii, right? Yeah. That must be a great way for a kid to grow up. Oh, it was. What kind of sports did you participate in as a child? I played football. I learned judo. I did some sumo wrestling – basically everything I could. Did you compete at the high school level in football? Yes. Were you pretty good? Yeah – not too bad. Any chance we could have seen you in the NFL as opposed to professional wrestling? No, I don’t think so. (laughs) Did you go to college? No. What made you want to pursue a career in professional wrestling? Well, I liked the competition and the contact. I enjoyed it. So when I had the opportunity to turn pro, I did so. I believe you told me you began wrestling part time there before coming to the mainland. Oh, yeah. When was that? That was back in 1956 or 1957. Who first took you under their wing to train you? Tony Morelli. After him it was Pat O’Connor. Wow. What kind of memories do you have of O’Connor? Oh, wonderful memories. He was a really good man. What was he like to work with? Very strict. There was another Johnny Walker wrestling in the 1940’s and 1950’s. Did you know him, or know of him? Uhhh – nope. Never heard of him. Was Johnny Walker your birth name? Yep. Thanks. I was trying to see if there might be any way we could discern between the two of you. (laughs) You told me before that Toronto was your first full time territory when you broke in. When was that? 1958. What do you recall of Toronto during that time period? I remember cold and a lot of rough matches. Mostly, I remember cold. (laughs) Give me an idea who was working there at the time. A bunch of big guys. I was probably the smallest person in there. Lord (Athol) Layton, Pat O’Connor, Don Curtis, Hard Boiled Haggerty… Which one? The one who just passed away (Don Stansauk). The Gallaghers were there, too. Most of those guys are all gone now. Did you enjoy that territory? Oh, yeah. I sure did. When I got off the plane there for the first time, I almost turned around and got back on because it was so cold. (laughs) I got off that airplane in a Hawaiian suit. I thought I was going to freeze to death. Yeah – I was not a happy camper. (laughs) I overcame. (laughs) How long did you stay there? Um – about four months. Do you remember where you went from there? North Bay, Ontario. Oh, so it got better, huh? Yeah. (laughs) I went from cold to colder. (laughs) We have records that show you working in Madison Square Garden in 1960. Bruno Sammartino was working there at the same time, of course. That’s right. Gene Kiniski relayed a story about you and Bruno working out on the mat at a gym where you came out on top, and Don Leo Jonathan confirmed the story. What do you recall of this? Yeah. (laughs) Well, he was a young guy and extremely strong, but he let his strength overcome his better judgment. He had something to learn and I taught him – that a smaller guy can beat you if you’re not careful. Strength is not everything. You’ve got to have good balance, coordination, timing, leverage – that’s something he didn’t know anything about at the time. I respect him for what he did in the business, but I wonder if he ever really learned that much because even when I saw him toward the end of his career, he didn’t appear to be a great mat wrestler. Well, he was not a great wrestler by far. He was just big and powerful. He was a very strong guy. Perhaps you might say he used his strength to overpower guys in the ring, but that was it. I guess the justification for him being the top man there for so long really stems from the fact that he was working to an ethnic crowd up there who seemed to love him for what he was, and he drew money that way. Right. Well, he was Italian, and you have a lot of those up there. He definitely got over strong up there. I read somewhere that one of Dick Beyer’s first opponents after he took the Destroyer gimmick was in Los Angeles against you. I seem to remember it, but it’s so far back I couldn’t tell you about the match. Yeah, this was 1962 or so. What was it like to work with Dick, and how often did you cross paths over the years? No, I don’t think we did. That was the only time I had the opportunity to wrestle him. It was enjoyable because he was such a good wrestler. It’s always enjoyable to be in the ring with other guys who know how to wrestle. He had a great amateur background and carried over that skill into the pros, and it’s a pleasure to know I had the chance. I would give anything to see a tape of that match to be able to see two of the most legendary masked men working together. I would, too. (laughs) Tell me about the “Rubberman” nickname. Where did that come from and who should have credit for it? I was working down in Texas at the time. Paul Boesch had a grade school wrestling team. He was looking for someone to help him coach them and he asked me. I did for one season. One of the wrestlers took a trophy for Most Outstanding Wrestler, another one took the state championship, and one came in second in the state. I was quite happy with the results of that. That’s impressive. Paul was the man who gave me the name Rubberman. One day he was watching me wrestle, and I was extremely flexible at that time. He liked the contortionist moves that I made with my nimble body. He started billing me as the Rubberman and it just kind of stuck with me. When were you working in Texas for Boesch? That was probably 1959 or 1960, maybe. You worked quite a bit for Nick Gulas. After hearing all the horror stories of his infamous payouts, why would you continue to work for him over the years? (Laughs) Well, I had a good deal with him as far as the financials were concerned. He gave me good guarantees and it worked out alright. I was on top and did well there. So therefore, as long as he didn’t backlash me everything was alright. (laughs) Aside from those payouts, not much else is said about Gulas. Is there anything about Nick that people would perhaps be surprised to know? Not really. A lot of the guys I’ve spoken to say he wasn’t a man of his word, but he kept his word with me, so it was alright. As long as a guy keeps his word with me that’s all that counts. Did you like that part of the country? I sure did. I really liked Tennessee. All three of my boys were born in Tennessee. You teamed a lot with Silento Rodriguez. How did you communicate with him prior to and during a match? Well, he was quite a smart fellow and he just kind of followed suit to what I did. It wasn’t necessary for us to communicate verbally so he watched me physically and just kept up with me. It worked out for the length of time we worked together. So the chemistry just kicks in and you read each other that way. Right. We’ve heard a lot of funny stories where Rodriguez used his deafness to rib some of the guys. Do you have any recollections of such ribs or any other stories you’d like to share of him? Not really. The only time I was actually around the man was when we were wrestling. I never really spent any time with him. I didn’t know too awful much about him. You were paired with Jim Wilson quite often in Georgia. (laughs) Tell me how that came about and what do you remember of him? He was a man who played football for awhile. I took him down to the gym and kind of stretched him a little bit and showed him he didn’t know as much about wrestling as he thought he did. (laughs) Just like Bruno, he was a big, strong, powerful fellow. He more or less used his strength to survive in the business. Needless to say he was not a good wrestler. From what I understand he quit and got out early. Someone wanted me to ask who you pissed off to have to team with the guy. (laughs) There’s a rumor, mostly fueled by Wilson, that Ray Gunkel had promised to get him a run with the NWA Title. Do you know anything about that? No, I doubt it seriously. I agree. I’ve done some research and he was mostly a mid-card guy. I can only find one main event. Yeah, I don’t think he – (laughs) – I don’t think he had the ability to uphold that position anyway. Was he even over with the crowd here? Not really. Not like a superstar. Wilson screams the word “blackball” to anyone who will listen. Did you see any proof of that in his case? No, not really, but I was not one of the guys who hung out with the guys. I was really a loner. I took care of my business and I went home. So I didn’t know a lot. You stayed out of the politics? Yeah. One of Wilson’s closest allies is Thunderbolt Patterson. He’s another guy who talks about being a victim of discrimination, yet he was pushed hard whenever he was in Georgia. Does he have any valid reasons for playing the race card? No. From what I understand he did well in the Carolinas, and he was also treated very well down here in Georgia. Again, the politics he got into were no knowledge to me. I never really heard too much about that kind of stuff. Occasionally I would hear some noise by the guys, but I never really followed up on it. It had nothing to do with me, so why concern myself? (laughs) Where else did you work in the 1960’s? Well, you’re going back quite a way so I can’t really recall exactly when and where I was. Mainly I was in the south more than the west. I did work in Calgary, and also in San Francisco and Portland. So you worked with Stu Hart. Did you ever make your way down to the dungeon? (Laughs) Yeah, I went down there with him. We sat and drank some homemade beer. (laughs) Who stretched who? (Laughs) No, I didn’t get on the mat with him. He never invited me to that. Do you consider that a wasted opportunity or a smart move? Well, he knew my ability, so he didn’t invite me to work out with him, but we had a nice relationship. He was a very, very nice man. You said you also worked in Portland. What do you recall from that time? It was an experience. A lot of rain. I was up there maybe during rainy season, I guess, but it rained five weeks. Everyday – non-stop, day and night. It was probably the most depressing territory I ever worked in. So the stereotype is true. (Laughs) Yep. Wasn’t Don Owen running the show there at the time? That’s correct. And in San Francisco with Roy Shire? Uhhhhhh…..no. It was someone else before Shire. Shire didn’t come in until later. It must have been Joe Malcewicz. Yeah, that’s it. Shire came in when I was about to leave. Was your stint as the Grappler in Florida your first time under a mask? Yep. What was it like for you working under a mask? It was very difficult to work with. It prevents you – it makes your breathing and perception very difficult. The first time I wore it down there, as soon as the match was over I ran back to the dressing room so I could rip it off. I was gasping for air. But I got used to it eventually, and I was very successful with it. How did that come about? Whose idea was it? It was Eddie Graham, the promoter down there. He wanted to bring me in as the Grappler. He knew my background and thought I would fit in well there with that gimmick. I did, and it was very successful for me. Did you use the gimmick anywhere else? No. How much did you enjoy working for Eddie Graham in the Florida territory? Oh, I enjoyed it very much. At that time, Florida was a very outstanding wrestling territory. Those people loved wrestling. I got over like gangbusters down there. I guess the most outstanding match I had down there was with Jack Brisco. It was a very exciting match and very enjoyable. Again, I was wrestling with someone who knew how to wrestle. Those are the easier matches, right? Not so much easier, but you’re wrestling with a wrestler and you know it’s someone that can keep up with you. We did a lot of sit-outs, takedowns, go-behinds – it was all stuff he and I were both familiar with so it was enjoyable. You and Tim Woods shared a dressing room in Georgia and Florida. Was there already a relationship? No, I never knew the man until I came to Georgia. How much input did he have in you taking the character of Mr. Wrestling #2? That was actually not his concern. It was the booker’s decision, and at the time that was Leo Garibaldi. He asked me to come here and take the mask to become Mr. Wrestling #2 to give Tim a partner. He felt I could be the man to fulfill the situation. Timmy was an outstanding amateur wrestler. As a matter of fact, just before he passed away, he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. The one in Iowa. Right. So they were interested in me because I had been an amateur. That was one man I thoroughly enjoyed working with. We never had any arguments or disagreements, and that kind of partner you don’t find very often. This was during the promotional war between Georgia Championship Wrestling and Ann Gunkel’s All South Wrestling Alliance. Did you ever know Ann Gunkel, and what were your impressions of her and how she did her business? I didn’t know Ann at all until she got into promotion, and I was introduced to her and we talked and all, but I never really knew much of her. She appeared to be a very nice lady, but I didn’t really know her that well. You were programmed with Buddy Colt in Florida and Georgia for a long period of time. Buddy is also being interviewed for this issue. Tell me about Buddy Colt. Well, I remember that he was very strong and was a competitor. He really kept you on your toes. We had quite a few matches together. The only time I ever really saw him was in the ring, so I didn’t know much about him personally. We never hung out together. You had some classic matches with Jack Brisco over the NWA Title. You talked briefly earlier about Jack, but elaborate a bit more on what it was like to work with him. Well, the first time we wrestled was down in Florida when I was the Grappler. There was a stipulation one time in Orlando where if I didn’t beat him I would have to take the mask off. After almost an hour he beat me and I started to take the mask off. The crowd gave us a standing ovation for probably ten minutes. The announcer got on the microphone and said he had never seen a better match. When I went to take the mask off, the crowd started yelling for me to keep it on. So the promoter came up and told me not to take it off. We were very competitive with one another as far as the wrestling goes. When he won the title, I was able to get a lot more matches with him. We had a lot of one hour broadways together. It was quite a thrill working with that guy. He was a hell of a wrestler. He was probably the most competitive man I ever met in the ring. I know Jack was looking to get out of the traveling schedule required by the NWA champion when you and Tim were having a lot of battles with him in Georgia. Was there ever any serious talk of you having a chance to wear the NWA Title? No, no. The chances of me wearing the title were very slim because they weren’t too crazy about having the title on a masked man. Right. Even still, were you ever asked to remove it for a chance to be the champion? No, I wasn’t. Was there ever any pressure from anyone for you to unmask during an angle? Nope. Would you have been willing to take on the touring schedule of the NWA champion? Probably not. It was very intense. I was married with kids. I was a homefolk kind of guy. To be away from home for long periods of time isn’t something I would have enjoyed. You went to great lengths to protect your identity during the portion of your career as Mr. Wrestling #2. When McMahon exposed the business, what was your reaction, and how does it effect you now to know that it is common knowledge who Mr. Wrestling #2 was? I was upset over it. I have absolutely no respect for McMahon at all. His dad – I had all the respect in the word for because he was a gentleman and he respected the wrestlers. I thought his dad was a real fine man. As far as Junior, no I don’t have any respect at all. I don’t think he has respect for anyone else either. When the tides turned in the wrestling world, it was a shame because people came to see wrestling, not talking. That’s what they do now – they talk more than they wrestle. That’s because very few of them know how to wrestle. (Laughs) No, not many of them. There’s a few still out there, but not too many. You’ve been down to see Jerry Oates’ promotion down here (Georgia Championship Wrestling based in Columbus). What did you think of those guys? There were young men who were out there trying to wrestle – some good, some not so good, but they were trying hard and you’ve got to respect that. Jerry was an outstanding wrestler and he’s trying to uphold the business as it was years ago. Personally, I wish him all the luck in the world. He is picking up a lot of good men and they’re trying their best to make it look like it used to. I was working on getting an interview with Tim just as he passed away. One of the questions I was going to ask him, you may be able to answer for me. Both of you were working here for Gunkel in 1968 when he abruptly left, apparently over some differences with the office. Dick Steinborn wound up filling in as Mr. Wrestling for some shows where Tim had already been billed to appear. Do you know what happened? No, not at all. It was an awful surprise to me when I found out he was leaving. I often wondered what happened to make him leave, but we never sat down and discussed what the purpose was. So unfortunately I’m not able to give you any solid answers on that. I just suddenly found out he was going out to California – I think it was San Francisco – and that kind of ended our relationship for awhile. We got back together when he came back to Georgia as my partner years later. Of course, that was after the plane crash and we wasn’t able to compete like he used to. His body just started giving out. He wound up quitting the business and went into the electronics world. He had a masters in electronics. Oh, really? Yeah, he was a very smart young man. He just picked it back up after wrestling. Describe to me the program between yourself and Tim in Georgia, especially the “burying of the hatchet” at the end of it. (Laughs) Well, they had us get into a disagreement over a title match. Anytime the NWA champion came through Georgia the top man was supposed to meet him for the title, and they always booked Tim instead of me. So I basically put it out there that I felt I had just as good a chance of winning the belt if they’d just give me the match. So when they announced again that Tim was going to wrestle Jack I went out and said it was unfair that the promotion didn’t recognize the ability of Mr. Wrestling #2. So he agreed to back off and I challenged to determine who should face the world champion. He backed off and I pushed the issue, and that’s how the whole thing got started. After it was all over we went on TV and I congratulated Tim for agreeing to face me to give me the opportunity to wrestle the champion, and then suggested we bury the hatchet. That’s of course when I put the hatchet down and we became partners again. Was that in the studio where you did that? That’s correct. Okay. Somebody told me they remember it being in the woods and the hatchet being buried into a tree stump. (Laughs) No. Do you have any special memories of what it was like around the first card at the Omni in May 1973? No, not really. I was honored to be on the card. Going into the Omni was quite a big thrill. I think everyone else was, too. Bobby Simmons has said you could seat about 5,000 in the Atlanta City Auditorium, and even a few more if you distracted the Fire Marshall long enough. (laughs) So suddenly you went to an 18,000 seat sellout crowd situation. Yeah, but personally I thought the Auditorium was the best for the acoustics and the atmosphere. It had the Omni beat all to pieces because it was close quarters and people could see everything. There wasn’t a bad seat in the house. The Omni seated more, but you had to sit farther away. Frankie Cain told the story where he disagreed with some of the booking in Georgia, and had a confrontation with you over it. He says you had a lot of influence with the book. Apparently, it became physical. Frankie seemed pretty respectful of you, saying you had a lot of guts, and was always in shape. Do you remember this incident happening? Yeah, we had a bit of a confrontation over a promotion deal, but it never amounted to much one way or the other. It’s unfortunate that people get misled sometimes. It was alright and it all turned out okay. I, in turn, have the same respect for him. He’s a good man. Cain mentioning you had some influence over the book leads me to my next question. I have never seen your name associated with booking or even owning a piece of the Georgia promotion. Did you ever, in fact, have a stake in the office, or do any of the booking chores at all? Not at all. I was not an office man. I never was, nor would I ever be one. I just wanted to get in the ring and wrestle. That was my thing. As far as having influence over the promotion, I never had any whatsoever. How much say did you have if you didn’t agree with the direction a booker was taking you? No. (laughs) I think my word wouldn’t have meant much one way or the other. You don’t think you deserved that respect at some point? Oh, yeah, sure. I probably had that respect. A lot of the boys respected me, I think, but as far as me having any piece of the office, I never wanted it. A lot less headaches, huh? Oh, gosh, yeah. (laughs) You took a few breaks from Georgia over the years and went to work the Mid-South territory during some of them. What drew you to work for one of the hardest traveling areas of the country? I have no idea. (laughs) It was hard. It was probably the longest trips in the word, but I did well and went over well there. I did alright, but I’d get homesick and tell Bill I had to go. It was not one of my happy places to be. The trips were never harder. In 1979, you left Georgia to work for Bill Watts right after he took over Mid-South. Did Watts ask you to come over or did you offer to go there to be away from Georgia for awhile? Well, if you stay in one place for a long length of time, your welcome does kind of get worn. I thought the time away would do me some good so I took a break and got away. What was it like to work for Bill Watts? It wasn’t bad at all. I enjoyed it. He was not a hard man to work for, so I went out there and got over like gangbusters. The people out there were very receptive to me. I enjoyed the people. It was great. Continued |
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| FEATURES: CONVERSATIONS - JOHNNY 'MR. WRESTLING #2' WALKER |
| Copyright © Georgia Wrestling History, Inc.
All rights reserved. |
| This interview was conducted by Rich Tate in August 2004.
For nearly twelve years, one wrestler alone became so identified with Georgia Championship Wrestling that he became a permanent fixture in the promotional banner for Georgia Wrestling History – Mr. Wrestling #2. Little did anyone know that he had been working in Georgia without a mask for many years as “Rubberman” Johnny Walker. As the war with the All-South Wrestling Alliance was getting underway following the shocking death of Ray Gunkel, promoters Paul Jones, Eddie Graham and Jerry Jarrett had to find someone to be the focal point of the rebuilding process. Originally, Tim Woods, working as Mr. Wrestling in Florida, was considered, but Graham was pushing him so hard down there he couldn’t afford to just drop him from his programs – enter Johnny Walker. The idea was spawned to create a second Mr. Wrestling, and Georgia would never be the same. With the promotion’s television program on a Ted Turner owned station, Mr. Wrestling #2 became one of the most popular and sought after figures in the business. Johnny sat down with me recently to bring you the most candid interview he has ever given. If you grew up watching wrestling in Georgia, you need no further introduction, so without further ado… |