Georgia Wrestling History - the Home of Peach State Pandemonium: Features - Conversations

The feud with Bockwinkel, was that just to get you over doing the new thing? Or was that planned out?

I think me and Nick were doing some tag teaming, so I think they were planning on turning Nick face because he’d been around there for so long, people didn’t hate him. And when Indiana Jones was big, they were trying to give Nick that Indiana Jones image. So I had the Super Ninja with the nun chucks, and Nick had the whip.

Was that the last great feud with the AWA era?

Oh, yeah. I had matches with a bunch of other guys like (Masa) Saito, and Nikita Koloff, and Sgt. Slaughter, and Harley (Race), I mean we’d bring some guys in. But, me and Nick had the last “cool” feud of the AWA.

You guys are such great talkers, how did you not break up doing some of those promo’s?

Because we’re great.

I also remember when you laid out Scott Ledoux.

Oh, that was a classic. With Scott, I think they were trying to help him out because his wife had cancer. But, that was great. During the interview, I kept calling him "canvas back" and this and that. It was a great set of promo's. It was different.

We had a match at some outdoor show, the "Wrestle Rock Rumble," or something like that (They had a “European Rules” boxing match at WrestleRock I on April 20, 1986 at the Metrodome in Minneapolis), but it was a hell of a match. Scott did a good job, and I was great. I think Larry "The Axe" (Hennig) was the special referee, and it was a classic.

In fact, Harley Race paid me the biggest compliment of my life after that match with Scott Ledoux, I'll never forget it. I came back to the room after that match, and Harley said, "It had to be a shoot, because no one could work that good." That was the biggest compliment I ever got in the business.

Was Ledoux -- and I know he was a good athlete, boxers are great athletes -- but did he have any training? Or was it like one of those, "Okay, Scott we'll help you out. And we'll give you to Larry, because Larry can actually carry you."

To be honest with you, it was Larry will carry you, that's how it was. (Laughs) Because he never was a wrestler he didn't know. Plus from the professional wrestling end of things, he just had no clue. Larry was there.

During that time, Stan Hansen had taken the belt off Rick Martel and he was doing mostly his Japan commitments and he considered himself ‘Baba's Champion’ (in reference to his loyalties lying to All-Japan owner Giant Baba). What was going on there during that time? What was it like to be held hostage by Hansen, saying "Well, I'll just leave and take the belt to Japan with me."

Well, to me it was nothing because I could care less. (Laughs) But, for Verne, that's one of the problems being a promoter, it's a real stab in the back business-wise. And even to the talent it's a stab in the back business-wise because it kills the programs.

Does it ripple down?

Oh, yeah, it ripples down for a while. But, Jesus, I never would get involved in that end of the business and have to rely on these guys.

Things started to get a little bit better around '86, '87, with the (Midnight) Rockers of (Marty) Jannety and (Shawn) Michaels, and (Curt) Hennig was starting to get a lot bigger and his work was improving rapidly. Was there was some hope as the WWF was dominating the headlines everywhere? What was the state of the company and do you remember how the feeling was? Were things looking up?

In those days, the money really wasn't looking up. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't really looking up. There was some good, young talent. We brought in the "Midnight Geekers" there... (Laughs) ...and Doug Somers and Buddy Rose had some good matches with the kids. And me and Saito worked with the kids a little bit. I thought we had some classics with Colonel DeBeers (Ed Wiskowski) and Jimmy Snuka, and had some great stuff, but it was just getting towards the end, I think.

Did that DeBeers-Snuka angle ever make you cringe a little bit, or did you just think that this was great heat?

I thought it was great. (Imitating DeBeers) "From Sowetto." We had some cool characters. The guy (Verne) did a good job with characters and stuff, it was just at that time I don't think they were on ESPN anymore, so that kind of hurt a little bit. The wrestling business was going down in general, even the WWF was going down. The Crockett's were going down, and then finally it was about 1990, until WCW started to be formed. Around '90, '91.

They started pushing Hennig, and start grooming him to take the belt off Bockwinkel. Did you ever care about that mythical thing of having the World title, or were you just trying to get paid and do a good job?

I'm in the business to make the most money. In fact, I'll tell you a secret, when I slipped Curt Hennig the roll of dimes supposedly, and Curt beat Bockwinkel to become the champion, that was my idea.

There were thinking of the inevitable after the me and Bockwinkel program of having me win the belt. But I thought that would be anti-climactic, because it wouldn't have swerved the people. The people were thinking that's what was going to happen. Bockwinkel was getting older and blah, blah, blah, and the whole bit. So, I said, "Everybody is thinking I'm going to get the belt, let's swerve them," so we did this thing with Curt.

Him and Bockwinkel had a 60-minute time limit, and I think it was going like 55 minutes, so everybody was convinced that it was going to be a draw and, all of a sudden, I gave him "the world's greatest advice," and he won the belt and everyone was completely swerved.

During that time there were reports that Hennig was actually negotiating with McMahon about coming in then, so they held the belt up and did the angle that (AWA figurehead president, Stanley) Blackburn and the championship committee that had to review the whole thing. Even though you weren't running the company, and were just trying to make a living, did that give you any pause and say "Where are we going here?" if they're trying to put the belt on Hennig, and he's going to jump?

Eh, I don't know. (Chuckles) I really don't know. It's a crazy business, I really don't remember that.

When you ended up winning the belt, one of the things you look back in history and I'm just going off of things I've seen that read, "Verne always wanted to belt on Greg. He could never put the belt on Greg, so he put it his next best option, which was his son-in-law, Larry." (Laughs) How do you react to something like that? Does it piss you off or just make you laugh?

I've heard of it a couple times, but I've never really gotten that. I know it gets spread around, and it's a natural thing to say, but I kind of feel -- and I know the truth of the matter is, because I never cared about belt or no belt, I just want the money. I don't want to carry the damn belt... (Laughs)

More luggage?

The way I looked at it, and the way a lot of people looked at it there, just because I married Kathy, it was there just wasn't anybody better at the time to have the belt, and get heat than me.

When did you meet your wife?

She was working there a little bit in the office when I was working for the AWA. And actually, it was funny, for like the first six to eight months it was a big secret, nobody knew that me and Kathy were dating...

Even Verne or Greg?

Nobody. Then one day, Kathy and I went to like a Moody Blues concert, or something, downtown, and they had an intermission. And about two rows behind us, I hear this voice, and I turn around and it was Greg. Greg with somebody and they were at the concert too, and they saw me and Kathy sitting there. (Laughs)

How did that go over with Verne?

Verne hated my guts.

How long did it take for him to come around to the idea of his daughter dating a wrestler? And not just any wrestler, it was you.

After she got pregnant. (Laughs) As soon as she had the kid, I was okay.

Did that get you, like the Triple H-Stephanie (McMahon) thing, was it kind of the same thing at the time where guys look at you cross-eyed like, "Well, he's getting it with Verne's daughter, here we go"?

That's a natural, I guess. I guess because I was in the position I was, and I was who I was, I really didn't get a whole lot of it because I was a top guy. So it wasn't like it was something they couldn't handle. It wasn't like the daughter running off with a jabroni.

Like Jake Milliman, or something.

Yeah. It was interesting. I really don't know what the deal is with Triple H and Stephanie, but as far as I'm concerned, Kathy is just a great chick. Because she was Verne's daughter, she was raised in the wrestling business so that's in her blood too. I mean, she understands the business. It's hard to have a wife in this business, but if you have a wife that was raised in it, and understands it, then you get along great because you kind of know where each others are coming from.

A lot of guys get divorced because they don't realize after you get married, you never see the husbands anyway. It's a weird life.

Then I was lucky because I got into the broadcasting, and I was home every day just about, so we could raise these kids. It was a good life.

When did you get married?

Oh, shit. I'm guessing now -- uh, 1987. Somewhere around there?

She won't be getting mad at you for forgetting, will she?

We've been married for 16 years. So what's 16 years from this, '88?

Uh, yeah, I guess it would be.

Yeah, we flew off to Vegas, got married, and went gambling.

Speaking of '88 -- how's that for a segue -- why did you leave and go down to the NWA and the Crockett's for a little bit? Were you working both at the time?

Yeah, I was kind of working both at the time. I was doing a little bit with Verne and stuff, and I had been there for a while doing a bunch of things, so I thought it would be a good to disappear for a few months. So then I got the opportunity to go to the Crockett's for a short time, and do some special things with them, and then some other things happened with the AWA. I can't remember if it was (Jerry) Lawler taking off with the belt and screwing Verne.

Yeah, that was Lawler with that whole Super Clash III thing.

So right after that, they got stuck again, so a door was opened for me to go back up top. Because they wanted me to work with Lawler, but he took off.

You took Barry Windham's Western States Heritage title. Is that in a gym bag at the bottom of the closet somewhere?

I think it's in a box some place. There's two big storage bins, one in Minneapolis and one here (Atlanta) so I, shoot, I don't know where it is. I got it somewhere.

You started feuding with Dusty after that, with Baby Doll as your manager...

Yeah. (Chuckles)

Was that supposed to lead to something? I just remember the "mysterious photo's." What was on the mysterious photo's?

It was supposed to lead to a big thing, and what happened was Baby Doll just married Sam Houston. And Sam Houston was very jealous. I mean, he was kind of goofy anyway. So he was jealous and freaking out, and they were going to do this thing where Baby Doll had these pictures of Dusty. And I never got a chance to see 'em, because she got fired.

But, what happened was, she was supposed to run over and give Dusty this big "kiss of death," the Crockett's told her to go give him the kiss of death, and shock Dusty. But, Sam freaked out and saying that he'd want a divorce if she kissed Dusty Rhodes. So we did some interview, but Baby Doll didn't run over and kiss Dusty, she just left because she didn't want to ruin her marriage, so they fired her the next day.

So that pretty much killed it dead right there?

It killed that dead. I think it was right after that I went back to the AWA.

Do you remember working that first pay-per-view, the Bunkhouse Stampede in Uniondale (New York)? It seemed like quite an odd place for the NWA to have their first pay-per-view.

They did that on purpose because it was Vince's backyard.

What was the crowd like? They started off with Bobby Eaton and Nikita and the crowd was God-awful from what I remember, there wasn't a whole lot that transcended through the TV.

Uh, I don't remember. I've been in so many thousands and thousands of crowds. I can remember little bits and pieces of the match with Barry, but I don't remember the crowd, whatsoever.

What was the best crowd you've ever been around?

The best crowd? Oh, God. I really can't say one best crowd. The best crowds were when we had WCW hot, and every place we went was best crowds. And they'd be chanting "Larry" bringing down the place. Those were the best crowds.

How's it feel from going from most hated man on the planet twenty years ago, to go to being the most...

Loved to death?

Yeah, doing the little salute, and just have people go nuts for announcing. Just for stepping up to the announcing stand!

You know what? It felt great, it came full circle. I mean you know, you did a bunch of stuff and the people hated you, but after a while they loved you, because they hated you so much. And it was like they appreciated it. It feels great, even when I do these indy shows and appearances, people are chanting, and I do the little thing and they go nuts. They love me and I love them, and it was a great time.

When you went back after the Lawler thing dissolving, and you went back and won the belt -- and business was dropping off badly -- what were your best memories? Do you have any hot moments there? I know they gave you Nikita Koloff, who wasn't exactly the best worker in the world, D.J. Peterson, and some guys like that. What was it like to try and defend against those guys to help save the company, and help salvage the company.

Well, you know what, it was fun for me because I was in the top spot, getting the top publicity. And even though things were getting close to closing the doors, and I knew it was coming, I had a real easy schedule. We did TV once a week, I only wrestled once or twice a week.

I started to get into playing a lot of golf, and flying airplanes around, so I was having a great time. And even at that time, we were having some talks with Jim Herd, and some other people in WCW, so I was looking forward to coming down here. And I know Verne tried to work something out with them, but it just didn't work.

Verne actually wanted to do an invasion angle?

That's where the invasion angle came from. The Gagne's wanted to do an invasion angle with the AWA and the new WCW starting up. And they wanted me to come down with the AWA belt and wrestle Sting, who was their new guy who had the new WCW belt.

But, I'm not sure who it was, so I don't want to mention any names, but somebody in the TNT-TBS-WCW got scared and told them that they had to be careful because "Zbyszko could come down here and beat up Sting, and make our champion look really bad." They were still into that old school "protect your champion" thing. You know thinking I was going to come down here and make the champion look bad so that the AWA could thrive on -- like that would do it. (Laughs)

So that never happened, but I wound up with a good deal here. Me and Kathy came down in 1991, and been living happily ever after. And the invasion angle, (Eric) Bischoff was up there working for Verne, and the Gagne's, and around me and stuff, and when he got in power that's basically got the idea for the invasion angle.

I guess that was the time that the ESPN deal had fallen off, and they did they infamous Team Challenge Series...

Oh, the infamous! That was the most horrible shit I've ever seen in my entire life.

What was it like to actually have to do that...

Oh, it was the shits. It was the stupidest thing. What it was, was Verne was convinced by somebody to try and do this outrageously new thing, and have a completely new look, and then they were going to superimpose some kind of chrome teeth with massive faces, or some shit.

Was it Bischoff?

No, this wasn't Eric, this was somebody else. Some television guy that Verne got hooked up with, that he should've never have. And when I saw that coming, and I talked to this guy, he didn't have a clue, I said "Oh my God." So I really didn't care, it was just time to move on. Time for Verne to retire and live happily ever after.

I still think that the best thing that came out of that was you standing in front of that backdrop doing the ‘Larry Land’ spiels.

Oh, that was horrible.

When you guys actually filmed that stuff, were you just in a warehouse with a backdrop?

We were in a TV studio with some kind of ring and a backdrop, or something. It was a big place.

And even Verne was losing guys then. Christ, he lost Baron Von Raschke, and I guess that shows how vindictive Vince, Jr., was, that he takes Baron for, well, no apparent reason.

Yeah.

Do you have any good stories about going out with any of those guys? I've heard Baron was a great guy that liked to have a good time. Anything in particular stand out?

There were so many wild and crazy ones. To tell you the truth, I never hung out with the guys, because the guys were insane. They'd all be in there drinking, going berserk. And I don't drink. I don't go berserk, and they'd all be hanging around the ring rats, jeopardizing their lives, and I never did that. I just kind of an odd guy that watched the show.

I'd go off to a casino and gamble. I like to gamble, I never hung out with the boys. So, if I thought about it, I could tell you some wild stories. There were some classics, but I don't want to get in trouble. Cathy would kill me. (Laughs)

This is probably the most forgotten title switch of all-time, when you went over to Japan and to face Saito. How many times did you go over to Japan in your career, did you do it all that much?

I never did it a lot. I might of been there, probably under ten times. It could have been six, it could have been eight. Sometimes there were six week tours, sometimes they were four week, but that was back in the early days. In the latter days, I liked Japan, it's an interesting country, and I enjoyed going over for a week, or for three or four days, doing the one big shot, but it gets old after a while.

Me and Saito had a classic match in Japan, there was something like 70,000 people in the first Tokyo Dome show, it was a hell of a match, and at the end the place went berserk. And everybody gave him the wave. And, of course, I come back to the AWA and said it was the Japanese referee, and it was the worst rip-off since the White Sox in 1919. "One of the worst sports scandals" and all that shit. I demanded a rematch, and then won it back. It was a good deal. That was a good one-night thing. I'd love to do that again, fly me up for one night, beat me up, give me a lot of money, and send me back home again.

You could probably do that because Pride would probably sign you up.

Who would?

Pride. It's a mixed martial arts group.

Oh God! All they'd get out of me is one night.

Do you remember how they did business over there? Somebody usually has a story about how they run things, and how guys wrestle each other, punching each other in the face full speed...

Well, it's a little bit different. Back then when I was going it wasn't that different. It more of how we used to do here. I guess they got hooked up with a lot of these shoot groups, and the whatever groups, and they're beating the hell out of these kids, and it's really pathetic, actually. But, it's a different culture over there. Thank God, I'm not Japanese!

Maybe they'll try and lure you out of retirement.

They're a lot tougher and crazier than I am.

What, you don't want to face any kick boxers?

No, I'd rather go golfing!

When you went back to the NWA/WCW, you hear stories that between 1991, ’92, ’93, it was just hell for some guys. Was it as really as big of a mess as some have said it was?

Well, it was kind of a mess as far as booking and getting it off the ground because you had a different boss every year, for the first three or four years, and different points of view and no cooperation from the North tower, you know, the upper echelon there. But, on the other hand, it was great for me and some other guys because it was the first time we ever had guaranteed contracts. So, you know, you come in and they say, “Here, we’ll give you a two-year deal, for this much a year.” So you go, “Okay!”

But, it was frustrating for guys like me, and some other guys who knew the business because we saw the potential for getting lost in the shuffle, and the politics, and it was me and a bunch of other guys too who really put in the hard work in. A lot of production people, and we put up with the politics, and it wasn’t until Ted Turner – we reached out to Ted Turner – and said, “Hey Ted, we can do this, but you gotta give us some help, man. We can’t do it if everybody in your North tower hates our guts.” I mean, my God.

Was that just pretty much expressed, “You’re here because Ted wants you here. We hate being associated with you.”

That was kind of the feeling at the beginning, yeah. It was like, “Had Ted lost his mind? Why is he doing this?” But, Ted was a big wrestling fan, and Ted was a loyal guy, you know? It was that little channel 17 (WTCG/WTBS) wrestling that really helped him stay in business. We used put wrestling shows to draw people to watch the Braves when he first bought them. And it helped Ted, and Ted always remembered that.

That’s why wrestling was on prime-time TBS for 30 years. Plus, it was good ratings, so I mean it was smart business, and Ted was a great guy when it came to wrestling. But then finally, he was the one that said “We’re really going to start pumping some money into this and do it right,” and then Nitro was born.

Back then with you guys they pretty much put all the top heels in one group (The Dangerous Alliance), and you guys were incredible, with Arn (Anderson), and Eaton, and (Rick) Rude, and (Steve) Austin, and (Paul E.) Dangerously. What was it working with that little clique of guys and being around them? Because you hear stories about Dangerously being a lot how he is on TV. Insane.

Well, he was kind of an insane guy. But I had a different relationship with a lot of these guys. When I was doing the big Bruno thing in New York, Paul E. was like 12 years old. He used to follow me around and take pictures, and that respect followed up. When I was hanging around a lot of these guys, like Rick Rude and Paul E., they were very respectful, and I had a different relationship with them.

I got along good with everybody, it was a good time. I didn’t like the groups and all that, I didn’t like being involved in groups, so it was shortly after that I got into the broadcasting. And the politics were changing again and that time, so I stepped out of the line of fire.

That’s when Bill Watts came through?

(Exasperated) Yes.

What was the “Cowboy” like when you were dealing with him?

Well, (chuckled) I think the Cowboy liked me because one time in Florida, years and years ago, I kind of stood up for myself with the Cowboy, and he got mad at me, but I left anyway. But it was kind of weird, he kind of respected that. But we got along okay. But he came in with a different philosophy for the company, which was “everybody over 40 is worthless, and it’s time to push the new, young guys.”

Of course, “the new, young guys” was Erik Watts. (Laughs) That was the “new, young guys.” Erik Watts. And when I saw what he was doing I thought, “Let’s try some broadcasting.”

And actually, broadcasting, I really didn’t plan on it, it just kind of happened at that particular time. I had a little arthroscopic knee surgery, for a little cartilage rip or something, and they asked me to do a couple matches while I was recouping. So I said, “okay,” and someone comes in and says “Holy shit, that was great! You’re one of the best color guys we’ve ever heard,” and blah, blah, blah, and “How about we give you a deal to do the color?” And I was kind of insulted! I said, “What? Are you insane? But then when I realized how much they wanted to pay me, and hell, I only had to work one day a week.

That changed it quick, didn’t it?

Plus, with the politics, it was better for my career to do that. I could always could come in and out and do wrestling stuff, like I did with (Steven/William) Regal or (Scott) Hall or Eric (Bischoff), but the broadcasting was great. It gave me time to golf, and get ready for the (PGA) Senior Tour. And it gave me time, for one time in my life, to be home for 10 years and raise the kids. Of course, the wife couldn’t take it. (Laughs)

When you came back and did the little thing with Regal, Regal might be the only guy who did the perfect “stall” more than you did.

Oh, he was a great character. When we did that thing with him when he was the evil Lord Regal, that was like old school wrestling. That was like the old character, and the people would go nuts. And Regal was a good wrestler/worker, so we could have a hell of a match with our styles. You know, something more than the clotheslining thugs that killed the thing. That was a classic. That was a great little two or three month program we did. That should be on “Larry Zbyszko’s Classic Reels.”

As far as being in WCW and the wrestling part goes, was that the most enjoyable thing you did? Or were there some other high times there?

Well, as far as the in-ring, it was fun at the beginning with me and Arn as the Enforcers. That was good. I loved the Regal thing. And I loved the broadcasting. The thing that really tops it off was after some years of broadcasting, I programmed the thing, and got involved, with Bischoff and Scott Hall and saved Nitro from the New World Order. That was great. That really helped. There was a bunch of stuff hot, and that was one of the things that was hot.

With Hogan being there, and during that whole NWO thing, things looked great at the beginning, but when did the ego’s and just the whole power plays – people taking advantage of their contracts, and being able to say, “I can’t work” – just get absolutely out of hand?

Yeah, unfortunately, it was probably about 1998, ’99, it was probably about a year or so after we got the whole NWO thing hot. Because the ego’s go big and the control of the upper echelon was lost because these contracts gave the talent the power to do what they wanted to do, and then they’d claim they were hurt, and you couldn’t fire them, you had to pay them. And I was raised on the thing that if you were hurt, you had to make it to the town because it was for the business, and everybody else in the business.

As a top guy, it was your responsibility. But, yeah, it didn’t take long, and unfortunately, things started breaking down. And then the New World Order started breaking down, and they had the Red and the Black New World Order, because these guys didn’t want to be a part of the other New World Order. They didn’t have to, they didn’t want to, and all that bullshit. And that was the beginning of the end.

Did any of you older guys go up to them (the younger talent) and say, “Look, you’re not going to get it any better than this as far as contracts go, these guys are actually taking care of your health,” and some other stuff like that? Don’t keep doing this, or was it just something you’d be wasting breath on?

Well, there was some contact, but it wasn’t my thing. I wasn’t involved in that, I was doing some other things – like getting ready for the senior golf tour, and all that – but there was some people trying, and that’s where the conflicts rose up. When somebody in the upper echelon threatened to do something, then all of a sudden, “Oh, my back,” and they were gone for three months. It was just too bad. It was a great company, and it was taken advantage of, and it was too bad.

You worked with guys like Hennig, and Rude, and Hall when they were all real hot, and I hate to bring this up, but, did you ever foresee the amount of guys that have passed due to their past lifestyles? Does it boggle your mind?

To tell you the truth, I’m totally shocked. Because, and I don’t want to I say started, but in terms of Hall, in terms of Hennig, in terms of Rude, I was one of the guys who was helping them, and working with them in the ring, and helping to develop them when they first started so not only do I know them well, they were younger than me. But, I guess, they were from a different school than I was.

I was basically like the last of the last guys that were trained by the old school guys. And I couldn’t see steroids, or muscle relaxers, or 50 pain pills, plus you’re drinking three bottles of booze. It didn’t even dawn on me these guys were doing all that stuff. I liked to party a little bit now and then, too. But nothing compared to – I just couldn’t fathom it. And I’m still kind of stupored about some of these guys.

I talked to Michael Hegstrand, you know, the (Road Warrior) Hawk, about a month before he died. I know he was trying to go straight, and he was proud of himself, and becoming a Christian, but I guess the damage was already done. It’s too late, and too bad.

Do you think we’re going to keep hearing about this, more and more? You look online, and some call it the “Culture of Death,” or “The Sickness,” and this is what happens with these guys?

I don’t know, I’m not involved with the “Culture of Death” (chuckles), so I don’t know. I really hope we don’t see a bunch, but on the other hand, it wouldn’t surprise me if we hear of one here, or one there. I just wouldn’t be surprised anymore.

Was it just life on the road, or just easy access to these things? Trying to kill the pain, or just because “Hey, it was there,” and it was like, “I’m an invincible athlete.”

You know, I think it’s more than just it being there. Because if you not even on the road, unfortunately, drugs and steroids are there. They’re there if you’re a professional football player, or professional baseball player. I mean, Christ, the high school kids are taking steroids to play on their teams.

It’s got to be (pauses), I wish I knew because I’d like to tell everybody. (Pauses) Shit, that’s a tough one, but I think it’s more than the fact it’s there. It’s got to be either something where, like, in your mind you know you’re not going to grow up, or you never think that this is going to catch up with you. Or, you want to be a professional athlete or wrestler so bad, that you’re convinced that this is how you have to do it, so you don’t care. But, I’m not sure.

Do you watch any of the product today?

Not much, just a wee small bit.

Vince still kind of has, even though he’s got Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero on top, these monsters like the Batista’s and the Sean O’Haire’s, who are basically the drizzling shits in the ring, but they look real good. Does that send the message that unless you’re a Benoit or a Guerrero, and have been doing this for 20 years, there’s no possible way your going to get to the top without looking like a freak.

Well, I’d hate to say that, but to me it would be hard if you want to be one of these guys on TV, or want to be a wrestler, or you’re starting off, a lot of these guys will say, “Hey, I have to do this, or these people won’t even let me in the door.” It’s too bad.

(Sarcastically) One of the smaller guys that Vince has is your buddy Chris Jericho…

Ah, yes.

The cynic of that whole situation (Larry and the WWE are tied up litigation over Jericho using the nickname “Living Legend” on television after he won the mini-tournament to unify the WWE and WCW World championships in 2001) would look and say, hey, Ric Flair took (the Nature Boy nickname/persona) from Buddy Rogers. Nicknames get passed around. What pisses you off so much about Jericho referring to himself as the “Living Legend.”

Well, it’s not so much Jericho, because Chris, he’s a good talent -- he’s one of Vince’s puppets, you know, he does what he’s told. And you can say, well, Flair took the “Nature Boy” from Buddy Rogers, but that’s terrific, but Buddy Rogers is long dead. And, the fact of the matter is, after I’m dead, I don’t care if he’s the “Living Legend” or not. (Chuckles) But right now, I’m still using it to make my living. So it’s like, you know, “Hey dudes!”

I guess Rogers let Flair have it too. They did that little thing in Crockett (Mid-Atlantic Championship) where Flair went over Rogers, and kind of like ascended to the throne.

Yeah, but Rogers was always Ric Flair’s hero. And he wanted to pattern, well he did pattern, almost his whole bit after Rogers. But, you know, Buddy’s dead, and great, but I’m still using it. And the thing that kind of got me was, after I called the WWF and said, “Hey guys, do you mind? I’m still alive here. I’m not dead.” And working and making my living with what I’ve built up for 23 years. And the only reason it got to the lawsuit part was because their lawyers sent me a letter saying, “We are going to take it, and will continue to use it, and you will not interfere.” So here we are.

Do you think it (the letter) was just a big “F.U.” coming down from Vince, saying send him this, and “screw him”?

Well, it certainly sounded like it to me! I mean it was almost like, “Hey, look it. We’re the WWF. We want to use what you made famous. And you’re too go away now.” Well, I’m sorry. I still got two kids to raise here, dude.

Do you have that trademarked, or how does that work?

Well, actually, it’s in the trademark office, or whatever. But, even without that, as it is now, it’s a common law trademark. Like common law marriage. If you use something in the public eye so long, it becomes your common law trademark.

Well, I think Randy Orton used it this past week. (On WWE Raw)

Yeah, this ought to be interesting.

Does this look to be one of those typical litigation things that never ends?

It could be, you never know. It’s been going a couple years. They did the discoveries, they deposed McMahon and Jericho, and they both admitted to everything. And, I did my depositions, and they sent everything to the judge, and now it’s just a waiting game. And you could sit here for two months, you could sit here for a year, waiting for the judge’s decision on the court date or whatever.

Let me bring you back to something nicer here. When did the passion for golf appear?

I golfed when I was a kid, and then I got into the wrestling – like an idiot. Because golf was for pussies, you know. Not today. “You’re a golfer? Here’s ten billion.” (Laughs) And then I started getting involved in it on the road. Like I said, I wasn’t a party guy. So I’d go on the road, and I’d take my clubs. And I’d get up in the morning and go golfing. I’d love it. No one was out there, and it was usually during the week. And I got pretty good. My Dad was an avid golfer, so I knew all of the tricks.

But then when I started broadcasting, and I was 40, I only worked one day a week and I had all that time on my hands. And as a television person, I knew a lot of people. I’d golf every day for free for 12 years. And I got real good, and I’d play with PGA professionals, and I just developed a hell of a game, basically because I played so much. And I said, I have this time, and when I’m 50, I can go and try the Senior Tour. And I’m playing in the professional mini-tours now, during the week, and having a good old time. And I’m good enough to give it a shot, so I’m gonna give it a shot.

How long does something like that take? Are the mini-tours sponsored by the PGA?

Well, the mini-tours are like “pot golf.” They got some little sponsors, everybody shows up and you put in 500 bucks. And like the top three places pay money. You might get like ten grand for first place, five grand for second place, $2500 for third place. Then the next ten or twelve guys get their 500 back, then the rest of the guys are donators. Plus they have sponsors like Mike’s Hard Lemonade and Sea Breeze, they’re great setups. So, I’m doing some of them this year, and I’m starting up in about a month. I’m playing a bunch, getting ready to go. So if I win a couple of those, I can get the wife off my back. And on the weekends, I do the personal appearances and things.

As far as doing personal appearances and things like that, I’m not sure you’re familiar of the situation, but if Ring of Honor contacted you and said, could you come up to Philadelphia, or wherever, and do a show, would you do it?

Eh, you know what, I’d have to find out more about the situation that’s going on with them. Because I guess they have some guy that was arrested for kiddie something. I don’t know what the story is. They’ve never called me, so, I never really thought about it. But now somebody is saying he’s gone.

Basically what the story was, this website called pervertedjustice.com and NBC-10 in Philadelphia had a sting thing set up in chat rooms – and they didn’t bring the cops in -- where they’d lure pedophiles to a house where the reporter was, and then they’d bust him. It was basically one of those ratings gimmicks.

God, that’s sick... I mean if he was gone, and it was a decent group of people trying to salvage it, I might, but I’d have to look into it.

Here’s some word association stuff for you. Just say the first thing that comes to your head.

Okay.

Ole Anderson.

Good Pollock.

Bruno Sammartino.

My hero.

Verne Gagne.

A classic old school promoter and a tough old wrestling guy.

Nick Bockwinkel.

Smooth operator

Vince, Sr.

A classic old school wrestling promoter

Vince, Jr.

He was different than his father. (Chuckles)

Bob Backlund, as the wrestler, not a person.

As the wrestler, a great athlete with no charisma

Vince Russo.

A writer that’s better off writing someone else.

Bill Watts.

Bill Watts. Thank God he’s gone.

Tommy Rich.

Tommy Rich. Holy Christ. I’m just amazed he’s still alive, and not in the dead pool.

Larry, thank you very, very much for doing this.

Thank you, Mike.

FEATURES: CONVERSATIONS - LARRY ZBYSZKO

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